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Discussion Starter #1
The new heep has a 700R4 tranny adapted to the 258 with a Novak adapter, having trouble with the starter engagement. It uses a 258 flex plate and the same ford starter that came stock on the 258. Starter grinds, and last weekend broke the nose cone off the housing, which tells me its seeing too much side loading, like the starter is too hard into the flexplate. The ford starter doesnt have any provisions for shimming closer to or further away from the flex plate, only allows for depth adjustments. I replaced the starter, and clearanced the outside of the centering ring to allow it to be moved a bit further away from the flex plate but engagement still isnt smooth or quiet.

For those running this combo, what starter are you using and did you run into any trouble getting it set up? Part numbers and suggestions are needed. Any ideas?

And for you search fawkers, I've been through every thread in the jeep section with 700R4 in the title and no mention of starter interferences so pack sand. :flipoff2:
 

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I have done the 700R4 to AMC motor, but I used the A/A adapter plate. There were no issues with starter engagement. The stock AMC/Motorcraft starter bolted to the adapter plate and engaged the stock AMC flexplate.

Have you tried contacting Novak? Maybe they have some suggestions in getting the starter to line up properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have talked to Novak about it, and I'm going to clearance the starter opening in the adapter a bit with their blessing to see if it helps align things a bit better. I'll keep this thread updated in case others try this swap and run into trouble.
 

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kwrangln said:
.................................
And for you search fawkers, I've been through every thread in the jeep section with 700R4 in the title and no mention of starter interferences so pack sand. :flipoff2:


:flipoff2: SEARCH :flipoff2:

That was too tempting, I've reasearched this too as we are talking about putting a 700R4 behind my friends 401. I have heard instances of improper contact but ussually it was remedied through shimming. Otherwise it does sound like you are on the right track with a contact issue. have you pulled the adapter plate to inspect for contact rub marks? to see where it is binding up? just a thought
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There is no contact or rubbing on the adapter itself, the only binding is with the gear on the starter and the ring gear on the flex plate. Hopefully a little clearancing to let the starter sit a bit further away from the flexplate will do the trick.

Novak has been great to work with, spent a fair ammount of time on the phone with them discussing ideas and they are standing behind their product all the way. Even better, they are willing to let me try to get it working without having to pull the tranny to send them back the adapter to be checked.
 

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I don't know how much this applies to you but, I own an 87' canadian made YJ and it turns out that I have had the same problem as you are running into but mine is on the stock crap. REplaced the ring gear, on another occasion I replaced the flywheel ringgear to no avail. Lots of research and finally found someone that could tell me that for that year only and the canadian made ones for some reason the ring gear has like 4 more teeth on it. One year only part number. In the middle of swapping and my new tranny was stolen. Looks like I will just order the part until I get the funds for the swap.
Don't know if it will help, but I can get pn's if you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
JEEP THANG said:
I don't know how much this applies to you but, I own an 87' canadian made YJ and it turns out that I have had the same problem as you are running into but mine is on the stock crap. REplaced the ring gear, on another occasion I replaced the flywheel ringgear to no avail. Lots of research and finally found someone that could tell me that for that year only and the canadian made ones for some reason the ring gear has like 4 more teeth on it. One year only part number. In the middle of swapping and my new tranny was stolen. Looks like I will just order the part until I get the funds for the swap.
Don't know if it will help, but I can get pn's if you want.
Now thats an interesting theory. Please do post up some part numbers and if possible tooth counts. Maybe myself and one other that I have found who has the same problem have fallen into some kind of jeep timewarp and got the wrong ring gear.
 

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"I don't know how much this applies to you but, I own an 87' canadian made YJ and it turns out that I have had the same problem as you are running into but mine is on the stock crap. REplaced the ring gear, on another occasion I replaced the flywheel ringgear to no avail. Lots of research and finally found someone that could tell me that for that year only and the canadian made ones for some reason the ring gear has like 4 more teeth on it. One year only part number."

i went through 5 starters and 3 ring gears in my 87. this was back in 89-93. it was finally resolved when the dealership installed a matched starter and ring gear. FAWKERS!!!!

i would just do what you are doing and shim it away from the bell housing. the hard part is going to be getting the correct distance down pat.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I dont think its a shimming/spacing issue, I'm leaning toward incorrect tooth counts and the way they mesh. Clearanced the adapter enough to space the starter out but still a rough loud engagement. Counted everything up and came up with 163 teeth on the flexplate ring gear and 9 teeth on the starter, this sound right for stock CJ stuff? What other tooth counts are out there for CJ ring gears and starters? Someone has to know. If no one bites on this post I'll start another one with a clearer topic. Part numbers would help as I've tried all I can at this end.

Thanks.
 

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kwrangln said:
Well I dont think its a shimming/spacing issue, I'm leaning toward incorrect tooth counts and the way they mesh. Clearanced the adapter enough to space the starter out but still a rough loud engagement. Counted everything up and came up with 163 teeth on the flexplate ring gear and 9 teeth on the starter, this sound right for stock CJ stuff? What other tooth counts are out there for CJ ring gears and starters? Someone has to know. If no one bites on this post I'll start another one with a clearer topic. Part numbers would help as I've tried all I can at this end.

Thanks.
I thought AMC used a 164 tooth ring gear. hmmm. :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Now that I think about it I forgot to count the tooth I put the paint mark on to start with so yes it is 164 teeth, my mistake. Yea, that was a blast, paint tooth, count 10, paint tooth, rotate flexplate, count 10, paint tooth, etc.

Yea, I'm trying to avoid pulling the tranny as long as possible.
 

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One other thing. weren't there a few years where a gear drive mitsubishi starter was used instead of the big motorcraft starter?

Maybe theres a difference there.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
When I went to get the new starter, a 90 YJ with the 258 pulled up the newer starter. I know since I already have one sitting on my bench that they dont have enough throw to even reach the flex plate, so went with the 258 motocraft starter. I'll compare tooth counts at work tomorrow just to check, you may be on to something as the thickness of the adapter just might make up the difference of the throw, HMMMMM. I might have to see about making up a temp mount for the newer starter just to check before hacking the adapter.
 
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