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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys and gals, new here, but been into jeeps for a few years now. been keeping my cj-5 wich is bone stock a float since we got it a few years ago. but i just recently came across and bought a CJ-8 scrambler a few months ago and had to bring her home. but on to the questions.

although i like my 258, it's well, lacking. and that's in this small cj-5. the scrambler is almost twice the jeep that it is. both ins weight and size. so i was debating on weather or not to stay in the family and upgrade to a 304 that i have laying around, search up a 360 or a 401, or just go up to a 4.0l and at least get the fuel injection. or i could go outside the family and go with the ford 5.0L. why not a chevy 350 or ls? to many costly conversions if my research is correct.

and that brings me here. to clarify some things and get some better info. on the 5.0L swap. i started reading the 100+ page monstrosity that is the ultimate 5.0 swap thread. made it to page 20 and it all seemed to start repeating. so i figured i'd save myself about three days of reading and just ask what i didn't understand here.

basically what i need to confirm is that the t-176 will bolt up to the ford "butterfly" patterned bell housings?

so no adapters needed. just use the ford flywheel and pressure plate, and the jeeps clutch disk. right? just the novak pilot bearing?

then the m.o.r.e. bolt on motor mount adapters, universal flex hoses for the upper and lower radiator hoses to adapt between the ford motor locations and the stock jeep radiator. but i have to upgrade to the full sized jeep 3 core radiator?

then the fun stuff that i'm unsure of. some one mentioned in the huge thread that the jeep input shaft is to long for the depth of the bell housing so you have to have some machined off? is that right? or is there a deeper one that will let it work without modification?

since i have cj's that were made for carbs is the a fuel pump/ sender that will directly fit in my tank and work? or a tank from a newer jeep that will directly bolt on to my jeep in the stock local that would have a electric fuel pump?

next, my donor vehicle is a 98 explorer with an auto trans. i can get the motor with the entire wiring harness.(not afraid to rewire anything) i'm wondering how much i can cut out and still have a working motor. i'm concerned about the anti-theft features. any way to bypass or cut them out? and i know that a lot of newer cars won't work with out the gauge cluster in the system. any way around that?? i'm already tracking down wiring diagrams for the engine. so i will be able to start planning a pin out of the system soon.

anything special i need in a flywheel for this thing? does it need to be balanced or are they universal on these motors. need to know since this motor won't come with one.

any help would be great and appreciated. i have no qualms modifying cars. just want to make sure i have a good understanding of what i need, so there will be no surprises later. thanks for looking.
 

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You are going to love the Scrambler. I've had short wheelbase Jeeps my whole life but when I built and started driving my Scrambler it was night and day. There's room to stretch out, smoother ride and doesn't dart from lane to lane like my CJ5. I built mine from spare parts from an a pair of late 70's CJs - a '76 CJ5 and a '78 CJ7. Can't definitively answer your question about bolting up the T176 to a Ford bellhousing - I installed a 304, but it only makes sense that you can when the T176 uses the Ford bolt pattern and we have been swapping in Ford T18s/19s to replace the T150s and T176s in our Jeeps for years. I would guess that sourcing the bellhousing from a early 80s F-series with a granny low 4-speed (NP435 or T18/19) would get you what you need. Matter of fact I'm prepping a T19 and D300 to swap for my current T150/D20 in the Scrambler this Spring. Yes, the pilot bushing is different but I'm sure you can find one.

Good luck with the build, from experience it sounds like a nice project.


I know you are asking about engines/trans swap but you can do really nice things with the suspension on the Scrambler - I have reverse shackle, 4" YJ springs up front and long 5" XJ springs in the rear - gives a fantastic ride on road and superb articulation out on the trails.
 

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Snooty Poser
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although i like my 258, it's well, lacking... or just go up to a 4.0l and at least get the fuel injection. why not a chevy 350 or ls? to many costly conversions if my research is correct.
I wouldn't bother with a 4.0 if you think you may want more power, it's really not that significant. I like it better in my CJ-5, but it isn't really noticeably more power.

basically what i need to confirm is that the t-176 will bolt up to the ford "butterfly" patterned bell housings?
My Jeep T-176s (3) are the same transmission pattern as my Ford T-19s (again, 3 of them)

so no adapters needed. just use the ford flywheel and pressure plate, and the jeeps clutch disk. right? just the novak pilot bearing?
I would bet there is a Ford clutch disk that would work too, just look for the one that works with the input shaft spline count and diameter. Not that it really matters, the Jeep clutch disk with the right diameter will work with the pressure plate and flywheel. Pretty simple.


then the fun stuff that i'm unsure of. some one mentioned in the huge thread that the jeep input shaft is to long for the depth of the bell housing so you have to have some machined off? is that right? or is there a deeper one that will let it work without modification?
I think that applies to the Full size Jeep T-18. Pretty sure the T-176 is the common ford stack height. Let me pull out a measuring stick and get back to you on that.

since i have cj's that were made for carbs is the a fuel pump/ sender that will directly fit in my tank and work? or a tank from a newer jeep that will directly bolt on to my jeep in the stock local that would have a electric fuel pump?
I adapted a '95(?) Cherocar fuel pump on to the CJ sending unit. You can stay stock with that, and I'm pretty sure that has enough fuel flow for a 5.0, unless it gets hopped up.

any help would be great and appreciated. i have no qualms modifying cars. just want to make sure i have a good understanding of what i need, so there will be no surprises later. thanks for looking.
Can't help with any of that other stuff.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I adapted a '95(?) Cherocar fuel pump on to the CJ sending unit. You can stay stock with that, and I'm pretty sure that has enough fuel flow for a 5.0, unless it gets hopped up.
what the heck is a Cherocar???? i'm not really planning to hop mine up planning to leave the motor about as bone stock as i can. minus the jeep that surrounds it.
 

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I thinks he means a XJ!:D

15 years ago I adapted a OBD-1 5.0l to a stock CJ-7 T5. The Mustang bell housing fit perfectly, no need for spacers, not sure on a truck, I ASS-ume it's the same stick out. The Jeep spline is 1-1/8" diameter 10 spline on the trans, 1-1/16"-10 spline on the Mustang clutch. I had to get a 5.0l flywheel with a large enough bolt pattern for the 10-1/2" diameter clutch, IIRC, though. To get the clutch to work, I turned the stock CJ bell crank into a setup that pulled the Mustang clutch cable. Probably a better way is to use one of the truck bell housings with a mechanical lever or a hydraulic setup. the Ford Swap Gurus here would know what works best.

You can mount a universal pump on the frame rail and leave the tank alone if you want. The Airtex E2000 is actually a Ford F150 EFI spec part that works on most EFI high pressure conversions. Also, if you hit the local junk yards, you can get the mounting bracket for it off a 80's F150 and the fuel filter mounting bracket so it all is easily and securely mounted along the frame rail. It might be a better option to plan on an aftermarket gas tank down the road, you can get one that is baffled which will help drivability when the fuel is lower than 1/4 tank.

One neat thing was the stock Ford ECM fit right into the same bracket above the heater box as the late CJ's ECM. I think I had to transfer a small pop riveted on bracket from the Jeep ECM to the Ford ECM. I cut the big oval firewall grommet off the Jeep harness and used it on the Mustang wiring harness, it all looked stock.

IIRC, the stock Mustang heater hoses fit right on the CJ's heater hose nipples. I think we were able to match pre-formed hoses to the radiator, it's been a while and I don't have pictures to go know for sure, though.

Hope this helps!
 

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Snooty Poser
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I thinks he means a XJ!:D
Affirmative. An XJ Cherokee as opposed to a FSJ ( Full Size Jeep) Cherokee. Unit body as opposed to body on frame. Don't get me wrong, I like XJ's I've owned two and drove another as a work vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
thanks folks for all the info. i think i pretty much have all the basics down now the major thing i have left is that my donor car(explorer) has an antitheft system that requires a chipped key. can i bypass this by only working with the engine bay electronics? or do i have to keep it in the system and just duct tape one of the keys to the alarm box under the dash somewhere?? or would you recomend zipping over to the for branch of the forum to ask??
 

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I agree with the comment above about the 4.0L. It isn't worth swapping in if you think you want more power.

The 302 and 5.0L Ford engines use weighted flywheels, they are not universal. The newer 5.0L's use a different imbalance than the older 302's, so search that and make sure you get the right thing. If the above info is correct about the 'stang bell housing, just get everything for a 5.0L with a t-5 or whatever uses your trans pattern.
Travis..
 
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