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Discussion Starter #181
Alright, well so much for January. I ended up working pretty much every day, but I am off for a bit now and still want to drive this out to KOH. I put in some hours last night, and got some encouraging work done. I used the Ruff Stuff lower shock mounts as is and centered them up. Since the axle travels side to side during travel i set the shocks straight up and down while at ride height. With shock location finally figured out I started on the driver's side upper arm mount. A bit tricky fitting it in between the center section and the shock, but i narrowed up the base of the Ruff Stuff tower and will have to build some custom gussets/reinforcements while apart for welding. With just over 8.25" of vertical separation, let me build the upper 24" long. Clearances looked good so I moved onto pass side. Got tower all done and shut it down for the night. Back at it tomorrow. Short list is: passenger upper, bump stops, limit straps, resi mounts. Long list includes: new P/S cooler, replace seals in axle, install spartan, repack wheel bearings, final weld, paint, etc
 

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your upper link is going to cause issues.
under braking and accel it will try and twist the lower
twisting the lower changes caster
you might not notice it at first but as the rubber joints wear it will become more noticeable.
you have basically mimiced the cheap XJ suspensions so you can go read that forum for the caster issues inherent in that design.

to correct it the link side joint of the upper needs to be in line with the lowers joints so that there is no lever to twist on
 

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Check your coilover to frame/mount clearance when flexed (with spring), looks tight, remember lots of axle side travel, especially drivers side when passenger side is fully compressed.
 

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Discussion Starter #185
MJ, not sure I follow completely but I want to know more. Are you saying that beacuse my axle side mounts have some offset (uppers inboard approx 2" compared to lowers) that this ALONE will cause twist of the lowers? Which will result in a caster change?? Or is it because the uppers "land" on a bent lower and will push/pull the bent lower up/down as accel/braking occur? I don't have a lot of room for mounting options, so I need to know what I'm getting into.
 

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Discussion Starter #186
Check your coilover to frame/mount clearance when flexed (with spring), looks tight, remember lots of axle side travel, especially drivers side when passenger side is fully compressed.
I agree on clearances. I figured there would be some notching/reinforcing for clearance once i start cycling, but right now everything is just tacked and if I flex it too much they won't hold. Going to get bumpstops and straps on, weld some high stress areas a little more, then flex it all out. Unless MJ is about to make me cut some shit back apart......
 

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Discussion Starter #187
Ok, so I processed what I think MJ was trying to say, or at least looked at it hard enough to figure out the forces at work. Because my lowers are bent, any push/pull (what the upper does) to an attachment point off of an invisible centerline (imagine the lower not bent) wll cause the lower to attempt to rotate. This rotation (one side is Synergy DDBs amd the other a rod end) will allow the upper to move, which will cause axle housing rotation, and thus a caster change. Where I disagree with MJ is that moving the axle side upper arm brackets outboard won't fix this. The uppers would still attach off of the lower's centerline and therefore still twist/deflect. My remedy was to go one hole lower on the axle side upper (still have almost 8" of separation) and to lengthen the uppers as long as i can. I was able to make them 4" longer which gets them closer to the invisible centerline. I feel pretty good about this new setup, tomorrow I will start on resi mounts, bumpstops, straps...
 

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didnt really read :homer: but are you running bushings at the diff end on both upper and lowers? as looking at your new set up i still seeing it being shitty and wanting to bind and change your caster through the suspension travel. so why not just do a 3 link and not have to worry about those issues?

might want to check this out if set on radius arms as had some good info on radius arms

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/1392073-radius-arms.html
 

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Discussion Starter #190
didnt really read :homer: but are you running bushings at the diff end on both upper and lowers? as looking at your new set up i still seeing it being shitty and wanting to bind and change your caster through the suspension travel. so why not just do a 3 link and not have to worry about those issues?

might want to check this out if set on radius arms as had some good info on radius arms

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/1392073-radius-arms.html
I like reading your build threads, but if you won't take the time to read mine then :flipoff2: Of course it will want to bind.....they are radius arms. Of course the caster will change......they are radius arms. Why not do a 3 link? Read my thread. :shaking:
 

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I like reading your build threads, but if you won't take the time to read mine then :flipoff2: Of course it will want to bind.....they are radius arms. Of course the caster will change......they are radius arms. Why not do a 3 link? Read my thread. :shaking:
well then weld that shit up and get on with it :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #192
Been kicking way too much ass to post, but here are some pics. I'm still trying to drive it out to KOH, want to leave this Tuesday....
 

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Discussion Starter #193
Does that "strapping" technique have a name? I welded the tubes onto those bushing housings, but it didn't look bomber enough. Flexed the whole thing out, looked great. Put tires on, flexed it again, trimmed bumper and plast for tires. Super pumped. I have probably a dozen little reinforcement brackets/gussets that i needed and my good friend Seth came over and cut them out for me. Saved me hours!
 

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Discussion Starter #194
Some more pics. I hade to separate one of the track bar braces around a steering box bolt, so i used a piece of tubing to allow access and still help me reinforce it. Never had limit straps before, google said allow for 1" stretch per foot of strap?? I set them up at 1.25" shorter than shock. Is that good? Also was able to get Kurt at Poly Performance to take the 90 degree fittings off of my resi's and replace them with straight fittings, you'll see why later. Dave helped me figure out spring weights based on the 500 compressing to 8 and 7/8" under truck weight. Going to try 500 over 700 and see how it goes, math says that is 11% light.
 

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Discussion Starter #195 (Edited)
More pics. Axle is fully welded, Spartan installed, new seals, repacked bearings, just have to assemble this am. All links are painted, frame brackets are fully welded and painted. Also i had to ditch the factory steering cooler line when i cut the crossmember lip off. I repurposed a factory Ford trans cooler for now.
 

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Discussion Starter #197 (Edited)
Put in a gnarly thrash session and got the truck done at 4am on Monday. Test drove it a bit(bled brakes again, adjusted toe in), slept for an hour and a half, then drove it 200 miles round trip to Santa Barbara for a union meeting. Its awesome! Considering i did a tape measure alignment, it drove great, rode smooth, no issues. That being said, springs have zero preload and it sits too high in stroke. It settled out after yesterdays trip but is still an inch high. Trying to figure out if i want softer spring or just a tender spring so i can lower the height with the preload ring (threaded 2" down the body to make contact with the spring at extension). I am going to put a ziptie on shock shaft and go hit some bumps/dips to get an idea of how much shock it uses(feels pretty stiff). The stiffness creates awesome road manners(zero body roll), but I'm afraid it is not going to flex well offroad.
 

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The truck looks great, very nice work! I've been following from the beginning. I have an old dodge that I plan to make a similar set-up for.

Do you have any plans to run a sway bar? A sway bar may allow you to run a softer spring for offroad use and still reduce body roll on pavement.

Do you have any better pictures of your frame side track bar mount? It looks like you added vertical reinforcement/ tie in ribs along the frame web.
 

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Discussion Starter #199
The truck looks great, very nice work! I've been following from the beginning. I have an old dodge that I plan to make a similar set-up for.

Do you have any plans to run a sway bar? A sway bar may allow you to run a softer spring for offroad use and still reduce body roll on pavement.

Do you have any better pictures of your frame side track bar mount? It looks like you added vertical reinforcement/ tie in ribs along the frame web.
I was cautioned by Amgvr4 that I would want a sway bar, but unless i go way softer on spring rate I can't see needing it yet. Here are some track bar pics. I had to cut a significant amount of the ruff stuff mount off to make it fit my frame, so I made 1/4" plate reinforcements to sandwich what was left and to tie in the entire framerail height. Hopefully it is plenty strong.
 

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