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Discussion Starter #1
The promoter of my Montgomery City, MO mud race has added a lot of other elements (show n shine, monsters, etc) to the event over the past couple of years. Due to the growth, it's probably going to be done over 2 days next year. One possibility is a rock-crawling course & competition. This would obviously be a man-made course with boulders hauled in. There's room on the grounds to do this. Even though I won't have anything specifically to do with the rock-crawl, I'd prefer that it not be a clusterphuck (since my name is also on the event).

So, can anyone offer suggestions on how not to screw it up? Specifically, I think the best option would be to find a traveling sanctioning body that could orchestrate the competition. Any ideas on that? If not, any ideas PERIOD?


TEX
 

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Better start one now. It's going to be the next big arena sport. I think some clever people are going to be 'renting' big rocks locally and stacking them figure '8' in stadiums across the country. Friday night you'll see the local hero's going for donated prizes from the local shops for advertising and Saturday night the shoot-off with the big dog's, prize money from the big dog sponsors. But then I've been wrong lots before. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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My suggestion on some steps to follow would be to have someone who is big into rockcrawling be in charge of setting up the course.

1. Dont make it difficult to the point where nobody can make it through but its gotta be difficult so not everyone can make it.
2. If you decide on having it point based (like ARCA) you need to come up with rules on what you get points for (knocking gates, backing up, rollovers, winching, etc...)
3. If you decide against point based the only other real option is time elapsed. This could make it intresting but could lead to lots of breakage.
4. You probably need some sort of vehicle criteria for the participants before entering (minimum tire size, lockers F/R, etc...) since you dont want someone to go get a rental car to try your course <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
5. You need some sort of extraction device for when people get stuck or break (think crane of some sort)

I could probably think of more but you get the point. The ARCA system works well but you dont want your event to be exactly the same. Just talk to lots of people to see what they would want to see in a competetion or talk to would-be-drivers and see what they would like have the course and rules be like. If you make the spectators and competetors happy, then its all good.
 

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Yeah, it could fill the slot between Monster Jam and WWF Raw. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks so far. We do have one local guy who took 1st at some Ramsey sponsored event who wants to be involved, so it's not completely starting from scratch. But, as with mud racing, just 'cause you've been IN a rock crawling competition & even won, it doesn't mean you know jack about putting one on <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> So, I'm trying to get as much helpful advice to the promoter as possible.

Thanks,
TEX
 

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if you end up with alot of entrants it could be a long couple days.... i would have 2 coarse's for the qualifying, then one in which neither have run on for the finals

group a run course 1 in the am, and then flip... next day have the top dozen or so compete in the finals....

just a thought..

it would be really cool to see a points series here on the east coast...
 

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i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?
 

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Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?</STRONG>
couldnt agree more. how long do you think spectators will watch shit without roll overs and carnage... not too damn long... i say put only a limit of tire size like arca.... no bigger than 40inches... as far as how small, hey it would be fun to watch an idiot not make it through the first gate cause he thinks his 32's are enough...


i wouldnt like just one run then total it up, i think 2 runs and a final would be the way to go
 

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Camo's right on. The crowd is paying to see carnage. Have a drawing for the locals to keep it managable. Time the event to keep scoring easy.
 

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Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?</STRONG>
I agree use the biggest frickin rocks you can find! And have time limits.
<IMG SRC="smilies/devil.gif" border="0">

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: trailhawg ]
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Good thoughts, though I really wouldn't expect a lot of competitors for an event here in MO - especially if we make it ARCA tough. That is unless it's an actual ARCA event (and again, bringing someone like that in is most definitely a possibility if anyone knows of a group that would be interested).

I do think that perhaps day 1 could be "qualifying" while day 2 could be the "finals". I like that idea a lot.

As far as the spectators go, well this is probably going to be a sideshow type event at best. The main draw will be the mud, monsters, & tough-truckers (that too is probably getting added) with the Show N Shine & Rock-Crawl being "added features". There will be bleachers at the rock-crawl, but nothing approaching what we have at the main grandstand.

TEX
 

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Originally posted by TEX:
<STRONG>Good thoughts, though I really wouldn't expect a lot of competitors for an event here in MO - especially if we make it ARCA tough. That is unless it's an actual ARCA event (and again, bringing someone like that in is most definitely a possibility if anyone knows of a group that would be interested).

I do think that perhaps day 1 could be "qualifying" while day 2 could be the "finals". I like that idea a lot.

As far as the spectators go, well this is probably going to be a sideshow type event at best. The main draw will be the mud, monsters, & tough-truckers (that too is probably getting added) with the Show N Shine & Rock-Crawl being "added features". There will be bleachers at the rock-crawl, but nothing approaching what we have at the main grandstand.

TEX</STRONG>
well i wouldnt be too surprized if you got a much bigger crowd than you expect watching the rocks...

the small bleachers at canfield were packed, with many people standin around also
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>well i wouldnt be too surprized if you got a much bigger crowd than you expect watching the rocks...

the small bleachers at canfield were packed, with many people standin around also</STRONG>
That would be a nice problem to have <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> And there are plenty of sets of bleachers that can be positioned around a rock course, but they're only a few rows high. The main grandstands seat between 5 & 6,000.

TEX
 

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I have been to alot of events and trust me, the rock crawl will rock!

After everyone sees it once, it will be the most popular event!

One thing though, in a stadium setting severe breakage where it takes a while to move the vehicle will leave the spectators with noting to watch.

so take advantage of NOT being out in the desert and after a team times out, use that extraction method as said above to get them outa the way so the next team can get it!
 
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Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG> hey it would be fun to watch an idiot not make it through the first gate cause he thinks his 32's are enough...
</STRONG>

That would be me....Baaaaahahahahahaha <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by Lance:
<STRONG>ARCA comps average 6-8,000 spectators. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

</STRONG>
Yeah, but ARCA is a LOT different (not to mention a lot better ADVERTISED) than what we'd be doing.

TEX
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally posted by Moab Austin:
<STRONG>I have been to alot of events and trust me, the rock crawl will rock!

After everyone sees it once, it will be the most popular event!</STRONG>
Well, you've gotta remember this is taking place here in the Midwest. I went down to Mudstock & though it wasn't a particularly well organized event, I think it was a pretty good indicator of the popularity of various events for our area. Monster trucks brought the most spectators, followed by tough trucking. Mud Bogging came in 3rd, then mud dragging, then the hill climb. And even though there were some nice machines involved, I never saw more than 10 or 12 people watching the rock crawl. And believe me, the guys who PARTICIPATED in the rock crawl were WAY more serious than the mud guys (most serious mud racers won't bring their racers to an event like that), but the one spot that held a crowd for the entire day was the mud pit. Only the tough trucks & monsters could severely divert one's attention & those events don't last very long. People like to watch the kind of wheeling that they like to DO. And around here, that's mainly mud.<STRONG>
One thing though, in a stadium setting severe breakage where it takes a while to move the vehicle will leave the spectators with noting to watch.

so take advantage of NOT being out in the desert and after a team times out, use that extraction method as said above to get them outa the way so the next team can get it!</STRONG>
VERY good point. Nothing worse than dead time.

TEX
 

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K.I.S.S.

Screw crawling - carnage and SPEED sells.

Straight course, xx' wide, xxx' long, boudaries on both sides - just like a drag strip.

You have a start line, you have a finish line.

Fastest to the other end, or furthest distance before timing out or vehicle failure wins.

You gotta keep the rules simple like this for several reasons. If you get too technical - the crowd is lost and they won;t have a clue who won or how.

Keeping the rules simple also lets locals run, and with only 10 or so rules to follow there is not a lot to misunderstand.

Mud racing works on the same principles - simple (relatively) rules, go fast, straight course - best time wins.

People will cry themselves back to their cars if you have people crawling over rocks for 2 days straight.

Think about it... they came to see what - MUD DRAGS??? You already know what they like in their sport (speed, power, fast times, etc.) so you already have the audience pegged for their "likes" - don;t screw with it!

I could go on for days, but that be what i think <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
 

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Oh, and some of you need to step out of youe bubble abut rock crawling. Most people see it and once they are over the innitial "wow factor" of "how'd they do that" they move one... lost interest.. yawn.. boooooring <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

We are talking midwest and east coast 4 wheelers. Rock crawling is the MINORITY, and most in all actuallity find it boring and lacking any type of fun factor. Sure, most of us here like it, but we are far from the norm in Tex's target audience.

I tell you "rock racing" is the key. pedal down, simple straight course where you can take any route you want between the boundaries as long as you are the first to the other end. Carnage will happen - and the crowd likes it. You will have airtime - and the crowd likes it. You will have bangs, smacks, and crunches - and the crowd likes it.
 
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