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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, I've seen many people talk about this but haven't seen anyone go thru with it so I'll document my progress and any information that I learn. My plan involves a lot because I can never make up my mind on anything so I try to do it all. This will be a pto winch that has an electric motor, is removable and trailer hitch mountable, and can also be changed to a pto winch by changing a chain. The materials.
Winch- Koenig r100j
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Motor- Pierce PS534
Truck- 62 f100
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The winch will be front mounted to a heavily modified winch bumper. It has what I believe to be a 36:1 ratio, the chain drive will be 10 tooth on the motor and 15 tooth on the winch input shift, making it a 0.66:1 ratio which gives a grand total of 54:1 I believe. More than likely I will have to increase that ratio but I will test it as is. Currently I have the winch mount almost built, I have the motor mostly wired and will have to build the mount for it. This winch will not be used for competitions or anything like that and will probably not be used offroad as well (truck is 2wd) so speed is not mandatory for me. I like designing and even though I've spent about $600 so far with no guarantee of performance I like to experiment.
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1979 F150 351w np435 on 37s. 1995 YJ 4Banger with 5speed on 31s. 2000 XJ 4.0 auto on 31s.
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This is cool, but what are you trying to do here? Make an electric winch that is way more complex than it needs to be?
 

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blatant asshole
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I bought a converted pto winch cause it was cheap as fuck. Its an ungodly nightmare of half fabbedframe and parts. Not to mention ridiculously heavy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That pretty much sums it up, I'm putting out information so if someone wants to try things like what I'm doing on a larger or smaller scale they have figures to go off of. Or if I fail they will know it's not worth it. I got the winch for $250 so I'm happy to try.
 

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1989 Jeep Cherokee
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Take lots of photos.
Write our lots of detail.
The next guy probably doesn’t understand what you’re doing or why.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I guess I'll start at the beginning then. I bought a f100 truck with a np435 that had a pto plate for it so I went out looking for a pto winch to add to it. I always wanted a winch but could never justify one because I probably will never use it. Once or twice a year at most. So while looking I happened to find a Koenig r100j pto winch for $250 and jumped on it.
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The plan was going to be either installing the winch up front as a standard pto winch or mid-mounting it under the bed and having it run both front and rear. After much debating I decided I'd rather have a front mount winch that I can remove and use in any trailer hitch. While removed it will be an electric winch, but while attached to the front bumper it will be a pto winch, with the only thing needing to be changed would be the chain itself. I ran thru a few initial design ideas from having two 1" posts go thru a hole in the winch mounting plate with cotter pins holding it in place, to welding a hitch receiver to the front and using that to mount the winch. I still haven't 100% decided but I think the post idea will be the most likely option. My pto winch comes with a drum engage and disengage fork (mine was broken as most are for these models so I had to fab a new one) it also has a forward and reverse lever which I either have to shorten or try to flip around due to clearance.
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These controls will be remote operated to either the bumper or inside the cab. I bought all electrical components thru Pierce including the motor, the 450 amp contactor, the winch remote control, and the female plug that connects the remote control. All the wires and terminals I bought off of ebay thru a seller named "gaugewireandcable" I will be using 2 gauge wire for everything but the remote, all connections will be soldered to lugs then heatshrinked. I also have a few sb175 connectors (175amp forklift battery connectors) that I will be using to modulate length need. The plan is to have a short pig-tail to the sb175 connector from the motor, and one from the battery itself. Then I will have 2 lengths of wire with sb175 on both sides (~8 foot and a 12 foot) in order to Power the winch from the rear of the vehicle. I will also have a set of alligator clamps to sb175 to use on vehicles without the pre-connections. This will also double as jumper cables for my vehicle. All of this is way over the top but again I have a problem with wanting everything. I will take photos of all of this once I build it all.
My initial plan was to mount the electric motor right next to the worm gear assembly, the benefit being the chain length would be small, but after messing around with it I found that it would make the winch too high and cause 90% of the weight to be on one side of the winch.
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I found out by accident that the worm gear assembly happens to be exactly the same height as the motor was tall, so I was able to put the motor under the other side's mount without having to adjust a thing.
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This evens out the weight better, and it keeps the chain at a reachable location while being out of the way. I will be making the mounting plate out of 3/8 plate. The winch plate that I will be using came off the winch bumper I have, but I will be using the winch plate rotated 90 degrees so that the original cable opening points down. This because it required the least amount of modifications to make it work, due to the odd mounting system for the winch I got lucky that using 2 pieces of angle iron caused the winch to sit perfectly when in this orientation, on top of that it covers more of the bottom of the winch protecting it from rock and debris. The Main downside is mounting of the Ferrell will be difficult as there is a reinforcement bump in the area where the Ferrell wants to live.
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The original roller cage has the cable coming off the top of the drum which makes sense because it's designed to be dropped into a willys bumper and the mounting points are in the center of the winch. I could use the same approach and solve that issue but I haven't decided yet what to do.
I believe that is about where I'm at at the moment, I will update as things progress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
In doing some more research, it looks like 54:1 gear ratio won't cut it. Winch gear ratios vary from 134:1 to 700:1 so I will be trying to add a bigger gear reduction via chain drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So the plan is to keep the 10 tooth sprocket on the motor, I will add an intermediary keyed shaft with two sprockets to it. First will be a 48 tooth sprocket that will connect to the motor, the second will be a 10 tooth sprocket that will attach to the PTO input sprocket that is 15 tooth. I also got a 25 tooth sprocket for the input shaft in case I need more reduction. I chose the Pierce motor because it is about as small as you can go while still having a large pulling capacity. They use it in their 9,000 and 12,000 winches so with the right gear reduction it should be up to the job. With the sprockets mentioned above I should get a gear reduction of either 260:1 or 432:1 with the 25 tooth input sprocket. The Pierce motor is actually a "buyers product co" model m3300 motor which is a 1.6hp 2000rpm 3600watt motor. I welded on the front mounting points to the winch plate and also 2 angle iron pieces to drop the winch to a better height.
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On a side note, currently the winch and mounting plate without any cable weighs exactly 100lbs, the motor adds another 20lbs and I suspect by the time I'm done with everything the whole assembly will be around 150lbs total. Hopefully.
 

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In stead of chain drive why not hydraulic? Much simpler, way more safe! The motor will be much smaller too. Can mount it direct drive to unit too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
In stead of chain drive why not hydraulic? Much simpler, way more safe! The motor will be much smaller too. Can mount it direct drive to unit too.
I could have done hydraulic but then I would either have to make the hydraulic system portable or add a hydraulic system to all vehicles I want to use the winch on. This way any vehicle can use the winch, or a trailer if I like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I got a lot of wiring done, still waiting on more wire to finish it up, but I have the contactor to motor connections and one of the extensions done. I also got the winch remote pigtail done but need to drill a hole to mount it.
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I'll try to give an explanation about gear reduction calculation and how I'm coming to these numbers. Once you understand it ratios are very simple to figure out in a chain drive system. Assume you have a 10 tooth sprocket on the drive motor and a 20 tooth sprocket on the driven shaft. In this scenario you would have a 2:1 ratio. 20÷10=2, this means the drive motor will have to spin twice in order for the driven shaft to spin once. There are two reasons we might want this, first is we want the driven shaft to rotate slower than the speed of the motor, the second and more likely reason is we want more torque out of that motor. The reason that 2:1 ratio gives you more torque is because, simplisticly, more teeth means a larger diameter sprocket which means a longer lever to apply force to. (Think trying to remove a bolt with a 3" ratchet vs a 30" breaker bar) now torque, rpm and power go hand in hand.. in hand.. Torque (lb.in) = 63,025 x Power (HP) / Speed (RPM). You can change torque and rpm in a system, to opposite affects of each other, but you cannot change the power of a device (motor in this case). If you want higher torque, you either need to lower the rpm or increase the power (bigger motor). If you need higher rpm you will have to decrease torque or again raise the power. In my situation for example, I have a 1.6hp (power) motor that spins at 2000rpm (rpm) and has a torque force of about 4ft lbs (torque). As I can not change the 1.6hp unless I buy a more powerful motor, and I'm sure you can guess that 4 ft lbs won't be able to operate a winch. I will need to sacrifice my rpm for usable torque. How much torque do I need? Well I don't exactly know for sure, but I can figure out something to shoot for. The Warn XD9I 27550 which features a 4.6hp 2100 rpm and 11.5 ft lbs torque motor with a gear ratio of 156:1 means the torque is multiplied to 1,794 ft lbs with a rotation of 13 rpm. In order for my winch to get this much torque I will need to have a 450:1 ratio (1794÷4 ft lbs)which would give a rotation of 4 rpm. If I wanted to have a single chain from the drive motor to the driven shaft I would have to have a 10 tooth drive sprocket (smallest I could reasonably find for a 3/4 shaft) and a 125 tooth sprocket on the driven shaft (giving a ratio of 12.5:1, that multiplied by the 36:1 from the built in worm gear would give a total ratio of 450:1.) Even if they made such a sprocket, it would be a 12" diameter sprocket, so it's not the best option to get what I need. The other option is to add multiple chains and sprockets to get deeper reductions without having to have too large of sprockets. In order to get close to the 450:1 ratio I am looking for, I will be adding another shaft in between the motor and the driven shaft. On this shaft I will attach two sprockets that will be keyed together so that when one turns the other will also turn. To get my ratio I will have a 10 tooth sprocket on the drive motor that connects to a 48 tooth sprocket on the intermediary shaft. This will give a reduction of 4.8:1. The other sprocket on that shaft will be another 10 tooth sprocket that will attach to a 25 tooth sprocket on the driven shaft. This will give a reduction of 2.5:1. In order to calculate multiple reductions in an assembly you simply have to multiply them together. So 4.8x2.5x36=432:1 ratio. This ratio should be close enough to the 450:1 goal as my winch is technically rated to 8,000 lbs. I will attempt to use the winch with the installed 15 tooth sprocket on the driven shaft which will only give me a total reduction of 260:1, an output torque of 1,040 ft lbs, but a drum rotation of 7.5 rpm I will have to test if this will be sufficient but judging by the fact that it nearly halves the torque I doubt it will be able go pull more than 4,000 without overcurrenting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Finally got all the heavy wiring done.
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now I can add what length I need to my cable. I can also use it as jumper cables to jump other vehicles. I'm still waiting on a sprocket as the one I ordered came with the wrong bore so I had order a new one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So I got the receiver hitch mounted and started on the intermediary shaft.
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Things are looking good, close, but good. I can't get the input shaft sprocket to move so I'll have to get a gear puller to align it properly with the other sprocket but there is just enough room for everything to fit. I also tried to finish the electric motor mount but I destroyed my hole saw without much progress so I'll probably try to plasma cut it out.
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Finished up the intermediary shaft with fully welded brackets and drilled the holes.
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I also cut the chains but it looks like I'll have to let another link out on the electric motor side. I still need to cut the larger 3" hole for the motor mount but I did drill a 7/8 hole in it to allow the shaft to come thru and test fit the whole system. Yet again tolerances are very tight, between the chain on the 48 tooth sprocket being very close to the receiver hitch to the chain almost contacting the mounting bolts. I keep getting lucky with the clearances so far. Hopefully tomorrow I can get everything wired up so that I can see everything spin up and check for rubbing.

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The height of the sprocket is good as well, I had feared it would stick up too high. I will have an issue with it mounting onto the front bumper thou as the height of the intermediary will cause the winch to need to be mounted forward I believe. Or I could drop it lower and see if that will let it clear the front grill.
I threw it into a trailer hitch to see how it looks and it seems right. I still need to cut the hitch tube down and drill the hole. I haven't figured out how long I want to make it just yet.
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I am pretty sure that I will be using the original roller ferrell assembly and modifying it to use the aluminum Ferrell. This will make the wire spool out the top of the drum but as stated previously, with the winch mounting points being in the center of the winch I don't forsee an issue with this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So I got everything hooked up and tested for clearances and functionality. Had to adjust things a little but I think it will work. Loud as hell and looks terrifying but it is working. I was able to deaf pull an atv for a little bit. I still haven't fully mounted the winch so I didn't want to break anything. I have a short video of it working.
Electric PTO running
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sorry for the long delay. Had to build a snowplow because Colorado.
So I got a lot done the last 2 days. Hopefully finished up the actual mount assembly. Modified a few things to make the winch removal easier. Comes in and out nicely. I also stripped everything down to prepare for painting. Not sure on color yet. Hard to find a complimentary color for my trucks paint scheme. After this I will be modifying the ferrell to accept both roller and aluminum ferrell
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