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Discussion Starter #1
Planning a small(48" wide) tube chassis based on a flatty. I'm trying to decide on using a stock hood and grill or a narrowed grill with a dovetailed hood. I'm not sure these sketches are going to make a lot of sense to anyone else but me but you might be able to get an idea of the difference between the two. I think this thing can come close to 2000lbs finished...
 

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Discussion Starter #2
That didn't turn out as good as I was hoping and it was a PITA....lol. Whatever, some thinking material. The bottom is the narrowed grill/dovetailed hood. Feel free to share your' thoughts...
 

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Nice....a new thread :)

A few notes from what I can see....

-If your going to link the front getting the lower links away from the tire when turned sharply may be an issue. The common solution is to triangulate the links a bunch but this can lead to complications with the front driveshaft hitting the links, especially if it is low pinion.

-The front tires will really get into the grill when turned and articulated. It might with the grill is narrow enough but at some point you have lost the shape and character of the grill.

-What are you thinking for tubing? If your scaling down the chassis can you scale down the tube to something like 1.5 or 1.38" tube for the main lines?

-What are you thinking for powertrain and drivetrain? Samurai stuff? Geo Metro engine?
 

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This thread is worth a read too, I think it's kinda along the lines of what your thinking.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/949639-aussie-kid-two-seater.html

I have wanted to build a lighweight mini-buggy for years. I always wanted to try a small VW diesel with one of the VW 3spd auto transaxles as a combination transmission transfer case. That would make for a nice and small drivetrain that could all be mounted ahead of conventionally placed seats. This would let you get the seats nice and low in the chassis since the transfer case doesn't have to be under the seats. The chassis would be able to be much thinner. The engine is short enough that the front axle could be fully ahead of the crank pulley for a low stance and/or more compression travel.

The downside to using the transaxle is that you only get 'low' range gearing. With the automatic you could split the difference and still be able to go 35-40mph maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nice....a new thread :)

A few notes from what I can see....

-If your going to link the front getting the lower links away from the tire when turned sharply may be an issue. The common solution is to triangulate the links a bunch but this can lead to complications with the front driveshaft hitting the links, especially if it is low pinion.

-The front tires will really get into the grill when turned and articulated. It might with the grill is narrow enough but at some point you have lost the shape and character of the grill.

-What are you thinking for tubing? If your scaling down the chassis can you scale down the tube to something like 1.5 or 1.38" tube for the main lines?

-What are you thinking for powertrain and drivetrain? Samurai stuff? Geo Metro engine?
Yes, the plan is to triangulate the lower links. I already have this figured out with the buggy I'm building which is also a 48" wide chassis. You are spot on with the driveshaft being VERY close to the lower link.

Tubing would be 1.75x.120 wall DOM along with 1.25x.120 and .095 for some interior bracing. I didn't think of using 1.5" tubing, but it's worth considering and would save about 75lbs.

Drivetrain, I'm thinking 200hp Ford 3.8 V6, C4, D300 and Toyota axles on 35's or 36's. I'd love to do another 5.0 V8 in something like this, but the power would destroy the 8" Toy R&P I think...
 

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I don't know if your going to flirt with 2000lbs if your running an iron block v6 and a dana 300. The shorty C4 is pretty light. The toyota axles are kinda light. 220ish for the front, 150ish for the rear?

So....

350+ for the engine
100 for the C4?
85 for the D300
220 for the front axle
150 for the rear axle
400 for tires and wheels

That is 1300ish for just the big parts. 2000 will be challenging. Is that 2000 with you in it?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't know if your going to flirt with 2000lbs if your running an iron block v6 and a dana 300. The shorty C4 is pretty light. The toyota axles are kinda light. 220ish for the front, 150ish for the rear?

So....

350+ for the engine
100 for the C4?
85 for the D300
220 for the front axle
150 for the rear axle
400 for tires and wheels

That is 1300ish for just the big parts. 2000 will be challenging. Is that 2000 with you in it?
2000lbs without me. Those are the same numbers I was working with except I have 300lbs for the engine include the radiator etc. and ya 350+ is more then likely. The key(I think) is going to be keeping the chassis at 350lbs or less...
 

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2000lbs without me. Those are the same numbers I was working with except I have 300lbs for the engine include the radiator etc. and ya 350+ is more then likely. The key(I think) is going to be keeping the chassis at 350lbs or less...
Yup. On something this small and light I would do 1.5", .120 on the main chassis lines where you need bends and rock contact. Anything for side to side straight tubing that doesn't see rock contact I would reduce wall thickness. For a lot of the fill in tubing, shock mounts, etc I would use 1.25 and/or 1" tubing.

Just don't overkill the chassis if you don't need to.

Weight adds up quick for sure! Getting a 4wd vehicle with 35+" tires under 2000lbs will be a good challenge.

What are you thinking for wheelbase?
 

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Mine is right at 2500lb with a Samurai frame 250lb and a 20R 315lb and I am running Toy axles. A stock Willys body is around 300 lb then add seats, windshield gaskets etc. Just to give more info.
How does the weight of the suspension you're going to use compare to leafs? You should save a good bit on the body I am guessing.
I think the Toyota axles will hold up to a 5.0 if you meet your weight goal.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Mine is right at 2500lb with a Samurai frame 250lb and a 20R 315lb and I am running Toy axles. A stock Willys body is around 300 lb then add seats, windshield gaskets etc. Just to give more info.
How does the weight of the suspension you're going to use compare to leafs? You should save a good bit on the body I am guessing.
I think the Toyota axles will hold up to a 5.0 if you meet your weight goal.
Suspension should be less then 250lbs total. Hopefully closer to 200lbs. Air shocks and double triangulated 4 links front and rear. What trans and t-case are you running?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I've been thinking about that 5.0 instead of the 3.8 v6. I dont think that it would hit 2000lbs as the 5.0 is about 100lbs heavier then the 3.8 even with aluminum heads. 300+hp sure sounds fun in something this light and small though! I guess the question is do I really care if it weighs 2300lbs with 300hp instead of 2200lbs with 200hp? Right now, I'm thinking "NO, this thing is gonna fly at the dunes"! I am still suspicious of the gear strength on the toy axles with that much power though...
 

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I've been thinking about that 5.0 instead of the 3.8 v6. I dont think that it would hit 2000lbs as the 5.0 is about 100lbs heavier then the 3.8 even with aluminum heads. 300+hp sure sounds fun in something this light and small though! I guess the question is do I really care if it weighs 2300lbs with 300hp instead of 2200lbs with 200hp? Right now, I'm thinking "NO, this thing is gonna fly at the dunes"! I am still suspicious of the gear strength on the toy axles with that much power though...
Toy axles with that much power, even if it is light, is going to be marginal I think.

I'd love to make something with super light stuff like the geo-metro 3 cyl aluminum engine, samurai 5-speed, and samuai t-case. It would be neat to be able to change the engine without needing an engine hoist :) There is a guy on a zuk board that built a mini-buggy like that and it is about 1000lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Aren't those Geo engines like 60hp? The 200hp v6 would still be pretty good I'm sure. I'm tempted to start hitting half price days at the junk yard and stashing parts where my wife won't find them!:laughing:
 

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Aren't those Geo engines like 60hp? The 200hp v6 would still be pretty good I'm sure. I'm tempted to start hitting half price days at the junk yard and stashing parts where my wife won't find them!:laughing:
Yup, but 60hp in 1000lbs vs 120hp in 2000lbs vs 180hp in 3000lbs. My flat fender is probably less than 180hp and is 3000lbs. It has plenty of power for most things.

I was more poking fun at the fact that it would be neat to be able to change an engine by hand without having to use a lift. You could also use an ATV sized winch for recovery. 2" air shocks would be overkill. Suspension link size could be reduced along with the joints. Fuel tank can get smaller.

It would be an interesting direction to go that doesn't get done much....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
That would be cool, like a big offroad go cart. I'm thinking a bit larger then that for this. I want it to carry two adults, an ice chest:blender: and backpacking gear for two. You've brought me back to reality though and I'm sure the v6 would be plenty of power.
 

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