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Liquid Iron Ind.
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Discussion Starter #1
I've installed and sold a TON of Walbro pickups and haven't heard of any failures.

Saturday at the RCRocs race I had one turn 90* to the bottom of my cell and shatter. I must have hit a bump at the right time. It littered my cell with pieces of plastic.

I've been looking at possibly designing a new pickup using the same theory but make it a little better for our application. 37* -6AN fittings on the top for more supply, square bodys to put them in the true corners of the cell, etc. The flare fitting would keep them from moving around and eliminate the softline junction by using flared hard line.

Does anyone else have issues with the Walbros failing like this?

If so, does anyone have some input on what they would look for in a new pickup design? Paging Wayne?
 

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The Piratenite
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You nailed all it. Those are all the features I want.

Put me down for the first 4 to be made.

I have not had any issues with mine. But would buy yours just to get rid of the soft line I know is sitting in my tank waiting to fail.
 

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I had them turn completely upside down once or twice in my old cell. The would loosen up in the hose. I used hose clamps instead of zip ties on the current cell and it hasn't happened yet. I run all soft fuel line, no hard line. Never had one shatter, but with 4 pickups all tied together with hardline, I'm sure yours had more weight on them than my 2 with just soft hose up to the bulkhead.

A pickup with a AN fitting on the top would be awesome.
 

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Good luck trying to get away selling a new vision of those pickups.

I bet they have a patent.
United States Patent 5170764

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5170764.html

Filed date: 12/23/1991
Publication Date:12/15/1992


Since it was filed before June 7, 1995 it has a 17 year hold on the said design or idea. Which means it has expired.

If you are seriously committed to designing something new, I might be able to have my patent lawyer look at it.
 

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Even so, if he changes the design as radically as he is proposing I can't imagine it wouldn't be legal. Otherwise there would only be one car company, one of every type of company.

J. J.
 

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Even so, if he changes the design as radically as he is proposing I can't imagine it wouldn't be legal. Otherwise there would only be one car company, one of every type of company.

J. J.
If the new design has even a part of the following it could be put under review. (I have been through a couple patent battles before)

The patent states the following.

A multiple pick-up for a fuel pump in a fuel tank which includes an in-tank pump with a combined filter and diaphragm to control flow of fuel to the pump inlet. A first pump base supports the pump and contains the diaphragm and valve for a primary fuel supply. A second valve base with a similar diaphragm controlled valve is located in the fuel tank at a position remote from the first base. A fuel connection between the bases provides a supply of fuel to the pump at the first base in the event the diaphragm, actuated by lack of fuel at the first base, closes a fuel inlet valve in the first base. Lack of fuel at the second base will also close the fuel inlet valve at the remote second base, and the lack of fuel supply will cause an engine to stop.
Bases on the date of filing you are good to go. But I suggest you look a little deeper.
 

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I use this on the pickups http://www.mcmaster.com/#d.o.t.-tubing/=dfknwq
I put the end in boiling water and then slip it on the Walbros. I put it all together with y blocks and the same type connection. I use a pushlock fitting on the bulkhead. I use the foam packed in tight to hold them down. it works great for me, I run east coast 93 all the time, going on 2+ years on the same foam as well with 2 inspections a year.....
 

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If the new design has even a part of the following it could be put under review. (I have been through a couple patent battles before)

The patent states the following.



Bases on the date of filing you are good to go. But I suggest you look a little deeper.
Its what is "claimed" thats important. ;)

And from what I've been told by my previous companies patent attorneys is that the shorter and sweeter you can keep the claims the better. More claims = more loopholes...
 

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I've installed and sold a TON of Walbro pickups and haven't heard of any failures.

Saturday at the RCRocs race I had one turn 90* to the bottom of my cell and shatter. I must have hit a bump at the right time. It littered my cell with pieces of plastic.

I've been looking at possibly designing a new pickup using the same theory but make it a little better for our application. 37* -6AN fittings on the top for more supply, square bodys to put them in the true corners of the cell, etc. The flare fitting would keep them from moving around and eliminate the softline junction by using flared hard line.

Does anyone else have issues with the Walbros failing like this?

If so, does anyone have some input on what they would look for in a new pickup design? Paging Wayne?
I have seen them break off the hose barb, get stuck closed and do all sorts of obscene things to soft line type of mounts. Never seen one shatter thats new.

I would like to see one designed for high flow pumps not 2 stroke snowmobile vacume pumps. I'm thinkin more surface area for the screen and bigger gap between the body and the flapper Diaphram (for lack of a better word). I don't think Square helps much cause to keep uniform preasure on the flapper I believe it needs to be round. I would rather have a side exit -6AN to keep the profile low but if it was on top I would not complain.

Thats all I could think of for now. Let me know if you need anything to get this rolling.

Wayne
 

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I've actually been reluctant to even use them due to the need to clamp them on and run some hose etc... The last tank I built had a baffled sump where the pump could sit and draw directly from... If you made a good one I'd run them...
 

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Liquid Iron Ind.
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Discussion Starter #13
I have seen them break off the hose barb, get stuck closed and do all sorts of obscene things to soft line type of mounts. Never seen one shatter thats new.

I would like to see one designed for high flow pumps not 2 stroke snowmobile vacume pumps. I'm thinkin more surface area for the screen and bigger gap between the body and the flapper Diaphram (for lack of a better word). I don't think Square helps much cause to keep uniform preasure on the flapper I believe it needs to be round. I would rather have a side exit -6AN to keep the profile low but if it was on top I would not complain.

Thats all I could think of for now. Let me know if you need anything to get this rolling.

Wayne
Wayne, we'll be in touch.

The square profile I pretty much ruled out, it doesn't add much and like you said the round profile would probably keep a better seal. I will definitely have the side exit -6AN, I don't see a need to make any other style.

I want to open up the flow restrictions as much as possible to make these able to support 5-600hp motors on a single pickup. Even with my turbo 4cyl i've seen some lean conditions when low on fuel in a twisted climb, I can attribute that to the 5/16" neck down feeding a -8AN fuel system.

What i'm seeing is a larger pickup, maybe 25% larger, a bit deeper, with the -6 fitting up top. Any input on the micron rating on the screen?
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you really wanted the square shape but the round function couldn't you make the bottom plate square with a round hole? That way the seal could be a rubber square cut seal of some type but the suction would only occur when the round screen went dry.

Just brain-storming ... I personally have no desire / need for square in the first place. The -6 side fittings alone would be enough for me to justify pulling my cell and redoing the pickups. In fact, why stop at -6? Why not just -8 so that you know you're never going to starve? It is easy to step down later in the system if you need to but extremely difficult to step up inside the tank later on.

J. J.
 

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The Piratenite
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30,420 Posts
When I was building my system I had the idea to have an aluminum shell built to hold the walbro pickup.

use the walbro but epoxy it into a an aluminum shell that has the -6 AN fittings.

might be possible to modify the walbro unit hose I.D. By drilling it out to provide for higher flow as like you mention I was also concerned with volume capacity of the output hose size.
 

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Final thought on the square shape is, the shape of the housing does not matter if the actual pick up has to be round. Any other shape moves the center of the round pick up (actual pick up point) further away from the corner which is where you want it.

As far as screen size you may be limited as to what will close the flapper. I would like to see 100 micron but you may have to go 70 like walbro uses.

No reason to go bigger then -6 unless the pickup will flow more.

I am off to the shop to tear up $100 in walbro pick ups, wish me luck
 

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The Piratenite
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If you go with the shell design idea.

Make the top of the shell with a threaded hole to accect an -8 O ring port fitting
So the end user can adapt which ever size and direction fitting the application calls for.

http://www.lethalperformance.com/2012-boss-mustang-302-fuel-delivery-fuel-fittings-o-ring-boss-fittings-c-10853_11131_11145_11162

I would want an 90* -6 with the -8 o ring port

The next guy might require a straight -8 to -8

With the o ring port you can make 1 style to fit multiple needs and keep inventory SKU to a minimum.
 

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Liquid Iron Ind.
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Discussion Starter #19
Ok simple as an anvil, Tim call me when you can can't believe I never saw this before.
Unfortunately i'm stuck in a hospital bed right now. :shaking:

Shoot me an email with your ideas if you got a chance. I've got time... :laughing:
 

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Slingshot...Engaged
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644 Posts
When I was building my system I had the idea to have an aluminum shell built to hold the walbro pickup.

use the walbro but epoxy it into a an aluminum shell that has the -6 AN fittings

I've spoken to a couple CAD designers about building basically the exact same thing. Apparently it wouldn't be too hard, just expensive. Not being one to shy away from blowing money on something stupid, I still may pull the trigger on this. Basically they would require buying a Walbro pickup and cannibalizing it for the screen/seal portion. The top half could accommodate a -8 o-ring fitting and the end user could adapt down from there if need be. If you come up with something better, put me down for a set.
 
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