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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, here's the story. Several months back I had my ARB installed together with the new R&P. To make long story short, ARB was constantly failing since day one due to air leaks somewhere in the diff, be it seals, line, you name it. I've had it worked on a couple of times with little success. Then I developed some wierd noises in front so I decided to give another place a chance to crack both issues. R&P replaced, locker fiddled with, no go. Now sad as it is, lack of the locker did not stop me on the trail so I'm not crying but after my last run I said screw it, I'm going in there myself. So here is where I open up the front diff and go WTF!? <IMG SRC="smilies/pissed.gif" border="0">

All but one screw that hold the cylinder cap are out. I retrieved them all from inside of the diff housing, not sheered off though obviously mangled by the R&P. 3 ring teeth gone, pinion damaged basically all gone to crap <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0"> Now both a 3rd party shop and ARB tell me that once installed there is no way in hell those screws can get loose and fall out like that - unless installed wrong. I would agree but then I would also think that a place that installs them would know what the hell were they doing . And those screw locking tabs do not look fail-proof to say the least. Now at this point I'm not going to argue with the shops on "who dunnit" cause I ain't got time for this sh!t but it'd be interesting to know if anyone else had seen a case like that - could be helpful in putting some blame on ARB design etc. One interesting lil' detail is that the cyl cap has some flat marks on its edge, looks as if someone punded (tapped) it with a hammer as if to help get the carrier bearing off. Then again, maybe it was done by floating parts. BTW, it's a d30 with 4.10's. I like the idea of the ARB tho never really got a chance to use it so I might just go with OX's for my upgraded axles. Still I've seen plenty of people running ARB and perfectly happy. Any insight would be mucho appreciated.
 

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ARB's suck in my opinion to much stuff can go wrong with them I know a guy that has a toy and his never works and he know how to set that shit up.. Just go detroit or lock right they are fool proof and there is no <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> lines running to and from your axle
 

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I have had my OX in the D30 since last December and have had ZERO problems. I vote for OX. JDN <IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0">
 

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Sounds like you have a crappy installer.

So I'm curious. Will you be taking your OX to the same installer?
 

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I have heard nothing but bad new on those lockers. I just went with the Detroit and have had no problems..
 

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I'VE WHEELED WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT RUN ARB'S AND HAVE SEEN THEM FAIL OF A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS, IT WAS JUST NORMAL THINGS LIKE AIR LEAKS. I AM ALSO LOOKING AT EITHER GOING ARB OR OX IN THE NEAR FUTURE, SO THIS IS VERY INTERESTING. ALTHOUGH I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE HERE. YOU SAID YOURSELF THAT IT JUST CAME FROM A NEW SHOP FROM GETTING A NEW R&P. I THINK THAT THE SHOP WOULD BE TO BLAME IN ALMOST ANY CASE.
LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS, IF THE SHOP YOU TO IT TO IS A DECENT SHOP (?) THEY WOULD HAVE USED GEARS AND WOULD NOT HAVE REUSED ANYTHING THAT WOULD GIVE SUB-STANDARD PREFORMANCE. FINALLY THE SHOP THAT DID THE INSTALL, DO THEIR GUYS KNOW HOW TO INSTALL R&P? TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, DON'T TRY TO BLAME ARB FOR SOMEBODY'S LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. BECAUSE I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING IN THE ARB DESIGN THAT WOULD CAUSE THAT KIND OF DAMAGE.

HOWEVER IF SOMEBODY CAN COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF PROOF THAT ARB WOULD BE AT ANY WAY AT FAULT -POST IT!!!! IT SURE WOULD MAKE MY DECISION A LOT EAISER.


TILL NEXT TIME-null
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well just to clarify, without naming any names both shops that had worked on this are reputable 4x4 places. From what I've been told they did not "re-use" any one-time only parts (like those cap screws, tabs etc). I'm not trying to put all or any of the blame on ARB really but am just curious if there is a pattern here by any chance. Air leaks and such I can understand (to a degree), shit happens, stuff breaks but of course I'm not ruling out installers' fault. Then again both of them f'ed up? Kinda strange.

As far as "that kind of damage" well if you have screws floating in the differential, that will (and did) cause damage. OX is definitely a possibility and if I do install it I will either do it myself or find yet another place (not really too happy about this).

Detroits or outright welding especially in the front is not in picture cause even tho the WJ is not my summer daily driver I drive it a lot in winter for skiing and such and 2k+ mile trips one way to the trail are not unheard of either. Nice to have something one can just disengage. But even if so this is still long months and $$$ away from decission time, I'm just trying to find out if anybody has heard of or has had similar problems with the ARB cause I've already spent a fortune on this rear-end and there's no more gold to dig.
 

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if you do not use the screws and locks from arb, they will back out...

i went to a bolt store and got the same screws.... but didnt couldnt find the locks.... i used locktight and they still backed out.... if the locks are installed correctly they will hold it...


id say go to the installers.
 

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I recently removed a TJ Dana 30 ARB in which all of the little cap screws with the custom locks had sheared off. The sheared screws backed out and were lying in the bottom of the diff case with the caps. Also,2 of the 3 pins that hold the spider gear shafts in place had slipped out through the screw holes and were laying in the case. The spider cross shafts had slipped part way out and had been damaged by hitting the pinion gear head. Luckilly, none of the gears had been damaged at all. In discussing the situation with a local shop, the probable cause was too little bearing preload on the side carrier bearings allowing the cover plate to turn and consequently shear the bolts. I did notice when I removed the carrier that there seemed to be no preload on the bearings. A little careful grinding and some new ARB cap screws and it is as good as new. BTW, this ARB had been run in the front axle of the TJ for over three years and 40,000 miles with no apparent trouble. I personally am acquainted with the owner and no the history. I would still recommend going with the OX though for the front, especially if you don't already have air to operate the ARB.
 

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Yes that has happened to me in a DANA 30 with 4:10's and I know mine was installed corrctly. Oh yea did I mention that I personally blew up a total of 7 arb's.

3 the way yours did. What happens is the axle housing flexes and when the locker is locked, it puts massive stress on the GRADE 2 bolts that you speak of.

GRADE 2 bolts.

When it flexes and the little bolts cant hold the pressure and the head of at least one bolt snaps off. Once one comes out then the rest are easy. It starts to vibrate and they unscrew. the more that come out the more it bends from the flex in the front end and the more little grade 2 bolts come out.

so far with my new Grade 12 bolts and blue locktight. I dont know what number locktight.
Mine have been fine. But its only a matter of time for the little dana 30. the housing is too weak to handle a spool. ( and that is just what a ARB locked is)

Here is the most receint picture of my front dana 30 ARB in peices maybee the mud will look different than yours but everything else should be the same.

AS for your air leak.. That is an easy fix.
When installing a ARB in you have to make sure the little $0.10 "O" ring is lubed very good and that when they set the backlash of your gears that the O ring falls between the intake air holes in the cap. If not it will leak.
Heres the pic<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/ARB trail fix.jpg">
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/ARB bolts.jpg">
 

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Adam go back to the person that first did your install. Anyone who drills a line in the center of the diff to plumb the air to the ARB is a hack. Take legal action if you have too. It might be hard for a shop to diagnois the damage that was already done. Good luck. RobK <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">
 

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The D30 ARB needs sufficient preload to help hold that cap on. Those bolts need the "help" of proper preload. Its not an issue with bigger ARB units since they use bigger and more bolts. The shop really needs to use a spreader or at least really force that thing in.
An ARB tech (employed by ARB) told me that some guys TIG spot weld that cap on. Kinda hard to replace the O ring after that though.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by Lucy's Driver:
<STRONG>An ARB tech (employed by ARB) told me that some guys TIG spot weld that cap on. </STRONG>
Hmmm, the thought has crossed my mind actually when I first saw those caps, but then I thought "naaahh". Glad someone else thought this wasn't a stupid idea. I might do that after all. Thanx for the replies guys.
 
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