Pirate 4x4 banner
1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,586 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
While reading all the recent posts about using motorcycle engines in buggies and after a big ATV-trip, my POR-reject brother came up with an idea that I find very interesting. That is a Honda 4wheeler ATV-based buggie. The things weigh only like 500 lbs, right? (Or at least it doesn't feel like much more when they land on top of me. :)) You could take the motor/tranny/t-case, mount it in a small single-seater tube chassis, and use something like Suzuki axles. The little engines are powerful as hell and you can uild them to be more so! They run at all angles. (Hell, mine kept running while it was on top of me upside down this weekend.) I have 2 obvious questions:

Would the tranny, t-case, and driveline hold up?

Would the axles be too heavy and effectively ruin the enegine weight advantage and eliminate the performance?

I mean, we seriously pound on our ATV's and they NEVER break. I did manage to bend an axleshaf one time, but it never broke. And the axles we'd be using would be bigger anyway.

Less than 2000 lbs. would be conceivable. Would that be legal in any comp?

Am I smoking crack? Has it been discussed before?

J. J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
This is exactly what I want to build for my kid to drive, but I've also thought of the possibilities for a comp buggy. One big problem I see is finding a good ATV motor, tranny/t-case. Most people who wreck them don't have full coverage insurance on them and get them fixed so I've had a hard time finding a good one to use for parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,839 Posts
Not at CalROCS

Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,996 Posts
It's been discussed before. The primary problem I see with it is that this would be a comp buggy, right?

Well, ask Big Rich about it and he'll tell you what's in the rules: "Vehicle mus be based on an AUTOMOBILE based drivetrain."

...It would appear they saw you, and all of those other guys out in left field, coming. ;)
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,010 Posts
My polaris 400 2 stroke 4x4 is torn apart in the shop right now, and I keep thinking the same thing (thought just for fun, not for comps)

Toyota axles, some 31's (they come stock with 26's) some cheap coilovers, hudro steering... sounds like fun, and could be under 1000 lbs I bet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,532 Posts
first off I dont think they are legal at any comp because most(if not all) comps say automotive design drivetrain...

second I dont think they would hold up to the abuse as a rockcrawler as they are...there are a lot of areas you could improve to make them last...for example...everything is conected using passenger car style cv joints...I know this season(for my company) we have gone through 8 brand new Honda Foremans...and this is only in 4 months...our guys have been using them daily(all day long) and each one has about 4-5000 miles on it...if we get rid of some of them I may see what they want and snag a few for some experiments with:D:D:D I think it would be a very cool idea for kids or just for something to play with...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,670 Posts
do a search for mini baja. you should find some pics of something very close to what you guys are talking about.
 

·
For Kayla
Joined
·
25,333 Posts
jdjanda said:
Here is your ATV based buggy.

http://www.patriot-racing.com/Patriot-Racing/index.html

Read the spces, Honda powered, Dana 30's, 35" MT's, link suspension, etc
except those are powered by a 1.6 L honda engine, like the kind in a civic or accord. 150ish HP in a 1900 lb vehicle.

as far as other drivetrains, I've said you could use a subaru drivetrain. they come with a dual range tranny with a like 1.5:1 low range... I'll take some pics of my car tomorrow if anyone wants to host them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
618 Posts
I started building something like this. The frame was loosley based on some plans I got from here http://www.git.com.au/~theedge/buggies_piranha.htm never finished it though (i get kinda laisy on my out door projects during the winter. I was originally using a snowmobile polaris 440 which doesnt have a trans, then there was some go cart company who made a 2 speed automatic. When I get back to it im gonna have a much larger engine though. Ill sell my 440 if u want it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,491 Posts
The patriot uses a Honda car engine and transaxle, so it would be leagal. It uses Dana 35s front and rear. It's biggest drawback is the short wheelbase. It couldn't even come close to being able to climb the type of osticals found at a comp. The engine/trans combo is woth looking into, but it would need to be larger overall to be competitive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,586 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Supergper said:
first off I dont think they are legal at any comp because most(if not all) comps say automotive design drivetrain...
Define "automotive." I don't get it. The ATV-based design would have 2 solid axles, 2 driveshafts, a tranny, t-case, and IC engine. The frame/body would be tube, just like all the buggies. The only difference would be the size of engine, tranny, and t-case.

So what if I used the ATV engine, a TH350, and a d300? Would it be legal then? If not, are these guys who are going to be using motorcycle engines illegal? What component is it, exactly, that makes it "automotive based?'

I'm not trying to say that the comp rules are stoopid. I'm just trying to figure out where the difference is in a sport where practically NO vehicles can really be said to be "automotive based." Afterall, what automobiles do you know of that have 20"+ coilovers, 20"+ travel, 35"+ tires, beadlocks, 1-ton+ axles on a 2000lbs.- chassis? :)

J. J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,190 Posts
I have thought about doing something like that also. In fact when I get more time I think i will. I have an old mini baja gokart and the stock axles off my flatfender. I also have a suzuki engine and tranny from a motorcycle. I would have to build some links for the axles and use the existing coilovers, change around the engine configuration and put on some brakes. I think it would be fun to drive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,586 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hell, you could buy a new ATV and scrounge some axles up along with coilovers and tubing for half the cost of most "automotive-based" buggies these days.

J. J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,839 Posts
patooyee said:
Hell, you could buy a new ATV and scrounge some axles up along with coilovers and tubing for half the cost of most "automotive-based" buggies these days.

J. J.
There must be some place that you can run a cycle based vehicle, but I'm interested in seeing what a "car/truck/bus/etc (automoblie) based vehicle can do. So we put limits on what we allow to run. Motorcycle motors would not be allowed in CalROCS.

Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
<sarcasm>What if you took a small engine and drove some spinning blades above the vehicle to give yourself lift so you could hover over the obstacles? It could look something like this:



</sarcasm>

Sorry, this is an automotive competition. Our rules state:

6.d. Engine & Drivetrain must be of automotive class and duty, as determined by ERoCC Officials.

No ATV's, motorcycles, bicycles, helicopters, hover-crafts, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,839 Posts
TrailKeeper said:
<sarcasm>What if you took a small engine and drove some spinning blades above the vehicle to give yourself lift so you could hover over the obstacles? It could look something like this:



</sarcasm>

Sorry, this is an automotive competition. Our rules state:

6.d. Engine & Drivetrain must be of automotive class and duty, as determined by ERoCC Officials.

No ATV's, motorcycles, bicycles, helicopters, hover-crafts, etc.
Classic..... Tim, can we steal this line from you:D

Kidding, I hope nobody would show up and try to run one.

Rich
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,010 Posts
TrailKeeper said:


Sorry, this is an automotive competition. Our rules state:

6.d. Engine & Drivetrain must be of automotive class and duty, as determined by ERoCC Officials.

No ATV's, motorcycles, bicycles, helicopters, hover-crafts, etc.
Ahhhh.... but all it takes is a little research to find that there are more than a few "automobiles" running around the US - and especially overseas - that DO run motorcycle type engines...

What'cha gonna do when someone shows up with what *you* think looks like a motorcycle engine, and they show you proof it is the same as a motorcycle engine, but has been run in economy type AUTOMOBILES in Europe and Japan? ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
TrailKeeper said:
<sarcasm>What if you took a small engine and drove some spinning blades above the vehicle to give yourself lift so you could hover over the obstacles? It could look something like this:



</sarcasm>

Sorry, this is an automotive competition. Our rules state:

6.d. Engine & Drivetrain must be of automotive class and duty, as determined by ERoCC Officials.

No ATV's, motorcycles, bicycles, helicopters, hover-crafts, etc.
That's a damn jyrocopter! :rainbow: :barf:

Anyway... if you really want to have a good starting point, you can start with a 1986-1987 Honda Fourtrax. These were the first 4wd ATV's, and the only ATV's that had straight axles front and rear. The problem is that they don't pivot, they are always level. But that can easily be changed. Just start cutting, and welding your own axle/suspension system on it. Then build yourself a little cage.

Or you could go with a newer model ATV, like an Arctic Cat (IFS and IRS with great flex), or a Honda Rincon (lots of power, IFS, IRS, etc). They do make heavy duty CV's and CV boots, but ATV's do spit out a lot of CV's when you put big tires or lifts on them.

There are tons of motor modifications, and tire choices out there. I like the idea of an ATV, but I couldn't really call it a buggy. You really could just get an ATV, and put a cage around it, and it would be a pretty good crawler. They make seats with backs for them, so you could set up some type of seat belt/harness type of thing.

I used to have a 1986 Fourtrax 350, and a 2000 Honda Rancher 350ES. But I don't have either anymore. I have a Tahoe, and a K20 instead.

I hope to get an other Honda Rancher in a few years.
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top