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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm building a Hilux 84 mod. I will put a Chevy 4.3 V6 i the truck, I have dual transfer with 4.77 in one of them and original in the second, 4.88 in the diff and 40" irok, the truck will be used for rock crawling, so, what is best...automatic or manual gear box?
 

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i decided to go with a auto. im running a 4.3 v6, turbo 350, and stock duals. 4.37 in the axles and 36 iroks. Ive always wheeled with an auto, its really personal preference.

Any pics of what youve got built so far?
 

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I personally run a manual in mine, for super technical rocks all the buggies and competitors run autos. Mine is a DD, 22re however. 4.3 gives you more options, if a DD and you can get a nv4500 auto is probably a better setup. Most other trannies will either not have an overdrive or be to weak.
just my .02
 

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I would go with the automatic. It will be easier to drive in technical terrain and the torque converter helps cushion the drivetrain.
 

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Auto is easier to drive but if you have both cases in low you wont be able to stop the truck. Its a PITA to have to shift in and out of neutral all the time when your trying to crawl an obsticle. My personal preference is manual.
 

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Auto is easier to drive but if you have both cases in low you wont be able to stop the truck. Its a PITA to have to shift in and out of neutral all the time when your trying to crawl an obsticle. My personal preference is manual.
Are you speeking from personal experience? I've never had trouble stopping my auto but i'm not pushing it with a 4.3 either.
 

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Auto is easier to drive but if you have both cases in low you wont be able to stop the truck. Its a PITA to have to shift in and out of neutral all the time when your trying to crawl an obsticle. My personal preference is manual.

I have never had that problem with my auto, just run a slightly higher then stock stall and you will be good. The stall in my truck will flash around 21-2200 rpm in low range and it works great.
 

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Marlin Crawler, Inc.
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I have dual transfer with 4.77 in one of them and original in the second, 4.88 in the diff
Where did you get the 4.77:1 t/case gears? ;) Especially with a V6, I hope you are already 23-spline setup, and I would recommend moving your 4.77:1 gear set into the 2nd case, not the first.

if you have both cases in low you wont be able to stop the truck.
I've never had trouble stopping my auto
I have never had that problem with my auto
Guys, you need to read Rukus's post. If he is running Marlin cases with a Marlin gear set, then he's got an Ultimate Dual Case setup. Speaking from experience, I agree with EightyFourRunner:

If Ruku runs an Auto with a 3:1 1st gear, then his Crawl ratio will be around 160:1, which is very low for an Automatic. I would say for an Auto, a good Crawl Ratio would be around 70-90:1, not 160:1. If your guy's Auto setup is 160:1, then I would like to know how easy it is to stop it in gear?


Many people here say that it is easier to Rock Crawl a truck using an Automatic transmission. I am going to go against the grain and say that it is easier to Rock Crawl a Manual transmission if equivalently geared. Here are my reasons why:

Rock Crawling with an Automatic means that you are constantly on the brakes, and that you have to use engine RPM to climb over obstacles. Especially while descending or dropping off from a ledge with an Automatic, it will require constant, continual braking which I find to be very annoying and distracting.

This is not the case with Ruku's Ultimate setup if using a manual transmission. At 200+:1, Ruku can put it in 1st gear and enjoy driving without the hassle of using the brakes, and he can climb over obstacles simply by pointing his tires in the appropriate direction and let the engine idle the vehicle up and over without any throttle input. In my experience, I absolutely HATE Crawling over rocks with a torque converter: The vehicle Crawls up to the rock, and then comes to a stop while the converter slips. More and more RPM is added until the converter can build up resistance enough to get over the rock. Then, once you start moving again, now you are at 2,000+ RPM and are flying over the rock, and you have to slam on the brakes if you want to still be considered a Rock Crawler.

I am a manual Rock Crawler guy all the way! I enjoy a nice mountain summer breeze using Engine compression braking while doing technical Rock Crawling at idle engine RPM with no skinny pedal and no brakes. These experiences ONLY available with a manual.

I don't endo my truck or even come close to an unexpected roll over. Therefore I don't need to quickly shift into overdrive, which in my opinion is the only real benefit of an Automatic. I am a technical driver, so if I am going to roll it, then it will be in a controlled and very much user-avoidable situation.

My 2 cents,
BigMike
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Forgot to mention: I love your clear side marker lenses!


Thanks BigMike :grinpimp:


That you seying is the reason for that I wasn't sure of what I will use.
After reading your post I think the man gear is the best setup for me.
I will switch to 23 spline in the t-case when I'm putting the V6 in my truck :D
So then, I just have to find an adapter so I can use my original man gear box on the chevy V6.


Sorry for my english guys, I'm from Norwegian :homer:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You said: "and I would recommend moving your 4.77:1 gear set into the 2nd case, not the first."


Why? I belive that you know what you'r talking about, I just wonder why? :)
 

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Marlin Crawler, Inc.
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No problem about your English, I can understand you very well! This might be a bit confusing, so I will repeat myself using different English so you can understand me well.

By moving the lower gearing into your 2nd case, you are limiting the amount of torque passing through your dual case coupler and entering into the input of your 2nd transfer case by just X 2.28, instead of X 4.77.

A: 4.77:1 gears in first case
B: 4.77:1 gears in second case

If A, then the torque entering into your second case will be higher.
If B, then the torque entering into your second case will be lower.

By minimizing the amount of torque entering the second case, you are putting less stress on the coupler and the input gear of your 2nd case.

Your dual case coupler and transfer case input parts will experience less loading if you place the 4.77:1 gear set in your second case.

By the way, could you talk a bit about your 4.77:1 gears? Who makes them? Is it someone in Norway?

Thanks,
BigMike
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No problem about your English, I can understand you very well! This might be a bit confusing, so I will repeat myself using different English so you can understand me well.

By moving the lower gearing into your 2nd case, you are limiting the amount of torque passing through your dual case coupler and entering into the input of your 2nd transfer case by just X 2.28, instead of X 4.77.

A: 4.77:1 gears in first case
B: 4.77:1 gears in second case

If A, then the torque entering into your second case will be higher.
If B, then the torque entering into your second case will be lower.

By minimizing the amount of torque entering the second case, you are putting less stress on the coupler and the input gear of your 2nd case.

Your dual case coupler and transfer case input parts will experience less loading if you place the 4.77:1 gear set in your second case.

By the way, could you talk a bit about your 4.77:1 gears? Who makes them? Is it someone in Norway?

Thanks,
BigMike


The t-case gears is 4.7:1 from allpro offroad :D I just put one 7 to mutch :grinpimp:
 

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I don't endo my truck or even come close to an unexpected roll over. Therefore I don't need to quickly shift into overdrive, which in my opinion is the only real benefit of an Automatic. I am a technical driver, so if I am going to roll it, then it will be in a controlled and very much user-avoidable situation.
I think that manuals and super low gearing are great if you have a gutless engine like a 22R or a Suzuki 1.3L, but if you have an engine that makes decent torque you don't have to gear it so low to let it idle over obstacles. There is a reason nearly all rockcrawling competitors use automatic transmissions. In addition to having one less thing to worry about, you can gas up a steep climb or down a slope you might normal endo over. In situations like this with my 230:1 geared truck if you are in low/low even if you mash the gas nothing happens.
 

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Guys, you need to read Rukus's post. If he is running Marlin cases with a Marlin gear set, then he's got an Ultimate Dual Case setup. Speaking from experience, I agree with EightyFourRunner:

If Ruku runs an Auto with a 3:1 1st gear, then his Crawl ratio will be around 160:1, which is very low for an Automatic. I would say for an Auto, a good Crawl Ratio would be around 70-90:1, not 160:1. If your guy's Auto setup is 160:1, then I would like to know how easy it is to stop it in gear?


yes 160-1 would be stupid low with a auto, so sell the 4.7-1 gears, get a stock tcase and use the money difference to buy ur adapter or better yet sell both toy cases and go with a np231C to dana300 tcases and enjoy the benefits, better gearing, stronger tcase and true twin sticks/front digs


Many people here say that it is easier to Rock Crawl a truck using an Automatic transmission. I am going to go against the grain and say that it is easier to Rock Crawl a Manual transmission if equivalently geared. Here are my reasons why:

Rock Crawling with an Automatic means that you are constantly on the brakes,

not with compression braking in a auto, I have full compression braking in all gears w/ t350

and that you have to use engine RPM to climb over obstacles.

again not true, unless you want wheel speed then you just stab the throttle and grab gears

Especially while descending or dropping off from a ledge with an Automatic, it will require constant, continual braking which I find to be very annoying and distracting.

again see compression braking with an auto. Plus if I am going over on my lid then again its a stab of the gas and grab gears and u get wheel speed and the rear end will usually settle back down.

This is not the case with Ruku's Ultimate setup if using a manual transmission. At 200+:1, Ruku can put it in 1st gear and enjoy driving without the hassle of using the brakes, and he can climb over obstacles simply by pointing his tires in the appropriate direction and let the engine idle the vehicle up and over without any throttle input. In my experience, I absolutely HATE Crawling over rocks with a torque converter: The vehicle Crawls up to the rock, and then comes to a stop while the converter slips. More and more RPM is added until the converter can build up resistance enough to get over the rock. Then, once you start moving again, now you are at 2,000+ RPM and are flying over the rock, and you have to slam on the brakes if you want to still be considered a Rock Crawler.

LOL you need to go drive a well built auto set up with an engine that builds a lil power and tq and get away from the 22R:flipoff2:

I am a manual Rock Crawler guy all the way! I enjoy a nice mountain summer breeze using Engine compression braking while doing technical Rock Crawling at idle engine RPM with no skinny pedal and no brakes. These experiences ONLY available with a manual.

or a auto with compression braking, plus if I need to stop while going up hill I just let of what lil gass I have given it and it stays right there, no three legged dance trying to juggle the clutch/brake and gas. I love having hardcore stick guys ride with me and stop for fun on a steep climb and just sit there and then go right back to crawling it with just a lil throttle input

I don't endo my truck or even come close to an unexpected roll over. Therefore I don't need to quickly shift into overdrive, which in my opinion is the only real benefit of an Automatic. I am a technical driver, so if I am going to roll it, then it will be in a controlled and very much user-avoidable situation

:laughing::laughing: Yeh I have seen a lot of those controlled user avoidable situations:laughing::eek:, and it always go's " what the fawk happened":flipoff2: yard sell .:laughing::laughing:



My 2 cents,
BigMike




Just my 2 cents
stan..
 

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I read all the arguments above. I still like a manual tranny better. I just feel like I have more control. I do believe its mostly personal preference though.

I grew up driving a stick. You will rarely see me struggle with it even on steep stuff. I can shift it at full throttle while climbing hills and you'd think it was an auto if you didn't know better.

Oh ya, good luck rocking your auto!

Chass
ct
 

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Marlin Crawler, Inc.
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It was pretty hard to read through the modified quote, but I got it all extracted below:

Rock Crawling with an Automatic means that you are constantly on the brakes,
not with compression braking in a auto, I have full compression braking in all gears w/ t350
May I first ask if you have ever wheeled a Manual Toyota setup at or around 223:1 downhill and off of ledges?

and that you have to use engine RPM to climb over obstacles.
again not true, unless you want wheel speed then you just stab the throttle and grab gears
You said "stab the throttle". That is what I am talking about. In my own personal opinion, I do not like being required to "stab the throttle". I can do it of course if I wish to with a manual, just shift into 2nd gear in a single 4.70 or so. But with the manual this is optional, not a requirement in my own experiences.

Plus if I am going over on my lid then again its a stab of the gas and grab gears and u get wheel speed and the rear end will usually settle back down.
This is where you are at an advantage in an Automatic. This is a very great feature and benefit of an Auto and is the difference between rolling it or not.

In my experience, I absolutely HATE Crawling over rocks with a torque converter: The vehicle Crawls up to the rock, and then comes to a stop while the converter slips. More and more RPM is added until the converter can build up resistance enough to get over the rock. Then, once you start moving again, now you are at 2,000+ RPM and are flying over the rock, and you have to slam on the brakes if you want to still be considered a Rock Crawler.
LOL you need to go drive a well built auto set up with an engine that builds a lil power and tq and get away from the 22R
I've driven a 22R-E 1st gen 4Runner with dual ultimate and 35s and I experienced this problem. You may be right regarding the power issue, but even if the 4Runner had 300 ft-lbs torque and if it could "Crawl" up the rock at 700-ish RPM with no throttle input, then you would never be able to stop it in gear and would have to shift into N every time just to come to a stop.

BTW, an Automatic was never offered behind a 22R 4WD ;) j/k

if I need to stop while going up hill I just let of what lil gass I have given it and it stays right there, no three legged dance trying to juggle the clutch/brake and gas.
Clutch pedal? I do not use my clutch, not even for a gear shift, that is the whole beauty of being geared low in a manual!

" what the fawk happened" yard sell
hahahahahahahah!!! yard sell :laughing::laughing:

I do believe its mostly personal preference though.
X 100

good luck rocking your auto!
I can bump or pop the clutch and get instant wheel spin.
X 2


This is a good thread. Lots of opinions and different things to think about for someone who is yet undecided. I agree that there is no one perfect solution, it all depends on where you drive and how your driving style is.

Regards,
BigMike
 

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One thing that should be considered is what he wants to use the truck for. If it's exclusively rocks, then a manual is fine, but if plans on using it in sand, mud, or snow (umm... Norway) then he should really think about an auto. I also am of the opinion that autos don't need double crawler boxes, I feel they work better with a single transfer case. One ultra low gearset is okay but that's the lowest you'd need.
 
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