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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anybody know off hand what the deepest backspacing for a 15" wheel that can be ran on a fullwidth late '70s 1/2 ton Ford HP44? I've heard mixed results on this, some saying that after about 4" or 4.5" of backspacing on a 15" wheel, the calipers make contact or simply won't clear the wheels. Searched but results pretained to 8 lug 3/4 ton D44s.

TIA.
 

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I'm not sure but issues to keep in mind with deeper B.S. on a 15" rim are possibly contacting the arms the tie rod connects to on the knuckles or if you have a tie rod over the same rim may actually contact part of the T.R.E.'s with a deeper B.S. than if you had the T.R. below the arms with that same rim & B.S.
Just a guess but 4" or 4.25" of B.S. may work keep in mind where you are going to have clearance for balance weights if it matters, clip on's may rub on the T.R.E.'S and sticky ones may take some thought where they won't rub at a point in the rotation.
But than again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
 

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back spacing again

Tie rod ends with steering over/ under and "arms" have been mentioned. I noticed your sign off was a Jeep...So....if you are adding the 44 to your Jeep and keeping the leaf springs, don't worry about the arms(Ford things for Broncos and F150s), unless you have the Tera arms.....Anyway, wheel spacers can move you out a bit, but that defeats the purpose somewhat on your deeper backspacing. Give us the scoop-leaf spring Jeep, Tera arms...... makes a difference on the answers.
A local guy with a 90? Jeep added a HP Dana 44 and is very pleased with it. We kid him about how much better his Jeep should go with the new front axle and its origin!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well currently, the plan is to pull a HP44/ 9" out of an F-150 or fullsize Bronco and run them uncut under my '89 XJ. I'm gonna retain the stock Ford radius arms and sleeve them with 1.5x3" box section and run 1" teflon heim joints at the custom tranny/ t-case crossmember. I'm gonna reuse my current RE 4.5" coils (acutally gave me 5"), so with the added D44 axle tube diameter, I'll end up with around 7.5" of lift. I should have ample room for 37" MT/Rs, but it really depends on the backspacing. I'm taking the stock Ford knuckles and reaming them out to accept 3/4" teflon heims. Tierod will be flipped over the knuckles - I would really rather preferr to go hi-steer with arms, but money is short and I really don't need the added clearance bad enough.

Running a 5" backspacing on a 15x8 with 37s, my new tracking width would be right at 74.5", compared to my current 68" (tire edge - tire edge).

The swap hasn't started yet and probably won't till sometime this summer if I'm lucky - it sucks being a broke college kid.:( I'm simply gathering the materials and research ahead of time.
 

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very cool on the d44 and r.arms

JS,
Sounds like a cool project. Unfortunately if you run the stock Ford style radius arms, as folks have posted anything much past 4 bs. will get into your arms. Look at some of the new extended arms such as those from Duff's www.jamesduff.com I think. They bend in behind the axle to allow more room and better backspacing options. I have a set on my rig and really like the extra room. I am able to clear large swampers with 4" backspacing on my Trail Readys
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Thanks kbebs, I'm not sure how to address this quite yet. Those Duff arms look f'kin nice, but $500 is just WAY too much, plus all I need are the arms.

1. I could adjust the steering stops on the axle some, but I won't really know how much the tires rub until I've already got it all together, and thats a gamble I'd rather not take.

2. Depending on where the arms mount in refference to the XJ unibody rails, I could add clearance bends to the arms so that the mounts are further inboard on the new crossmember, but thats assuming that they're directly inline with the unibody rails.

3. I can bite the bullet and simply just run the 4" backspacing and live with the added width, which really isn't that much wider.


I think I'm gonna look into both, but more than likely, I'll just run the 4" backspacing and live with the added width. If I adjust the stops too much, I'll kill the turning radius, if I overlook it, I'll kill my tires and the arms. I need to figure out where the arms are in refference to the unibody rails, then I'll know what to do.

Thanks again kbebs.;)
 

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JS-Economos said:
Well currently, the plan is to pull a HP44/ 9" out of an F-150 or fullsize Bronco and run them uncut under my '89 XJ. I'm gonna retain the stock Ford radius arms and sleeve them with 1.5x3" box section and run 1" teflon heim joints at the custom tranny/ t-case crossmember. I'm gonna reuse my current RE 4.5" coils (acutally gave me 5"), so with the added D44 axle tube diameter, I'll end up with around 7.5" of lift. I should have ample room for 37" MT/Rs, but it really depends on the backspacing. I'm taking the stock Ford knuckles and reaming them out to accept 3/4" teflon heims. Tierod will be flipped over the knuckles - I would really rather preferr to go hi-steer with arms, but money is short and I really don't need the added clearance bad enough.

Running a 5" backspacing on a 15x8 with 37s, my new tracking width would be right at 74.5", compared to my current 68" (tire edge - tire edge).

The swap hasn't started yet and probably won't till sometime this summer if I'm lucky - it sucks being a broke college kid.:( I'm simply gathering the materials and research ahead of time.
I'm running the same axles your talking about using on my E.B. right now, my rims are 17x8 w/4.5" of B.S., I relocated my radius arms inward to the stock width of my E.B. radius arms which gave me more clearance between my tire and radius arm at full turn.
I'm running E.B. 76/77 disk brake knuckles, the J.Duff's are exact clones of these, you will have problems with a 15" rim if you go more than 3.75"s of B.S. with these knuckles and a tie rod over may be into the rim with 3.75"s of B.S.
An xtra perk is with this B.S. it improved my scrub radius and I have a killer turning radius, some say it's better than the turning radius of the stock early bronco axles and I have full width axles.
My trak width is a little under 78" now and it handles great at the mall.
Here's a pic, don't know if this helps, if you want I'll take a pic of my tie rod arm w/tie rod over to rim clearance and post it tommorow let me know and I'll do it.
Later, Francois.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Francois, thanks a lot for the tech and the pic. More pics would be great if you don't mind too much - could you post a head-on shot of your tracking width if its not too much trouble?

Considering my options now, I may cut the stock arms off about 2" from the axle mounts and graft the extentions on with hi-clearance bends. It will also allow me to inboard them further and mount them flush with the front edge of the new crossmember instead of directly under the unibody, where they'd be prone to damage and hanging up. I reckon the new questions are how much bend degree and how far should I inboard them.
 

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JS-Economos said:
Francois, thanks a lot for the tech and the pic. More pics would be great if you don't mind too much - could you post a head-on shot of your tracking width if its not too much trouble?

Considering my options now, I may cut the stock arms off about 2" from the axle mounts and graft the extentions on with hi-clearance bends. It will also allow me to inboard them further and mount them flush with the front edge of the new crossmember instead of directly under the unibody, where they'd be prone to damage and hanging up. I reckon the new questions are how much bend degree and how far should I inboard them.
I don't know if your aware but if you get an early enough hi-pin44 the wedges for the radius arms are welded on like the Early Bronco wedges to the tube, this gives you the ability to remove the wedges and re-locate them inward away from the knuckle unlike the 78/79 hi-pin 44, so you wouldn't have to bend a custom radius arm and you can get back some of your turning radius.
Also the F-150 knuckles will give you more clearance between the arm the T.R.E. mounts to on the knuckle and the rim and there disk brake knuckles, down side is the arm is lower than a drum brake knuckle, possibilty is to use the drum brake knuckle and run the chevy disk brakes on it and you may be able to get 4" of B.S. on a 15" rim because the t.r.e. arm bends in away from the rim on the drum and disk F-150 knuckles, I really don't think you'll get more that 3.75" of B.S. but I don't know for sure, the reasons I went to a 17" rim is for the deeper B.S. for improved scrub radius and to soak up a little of the full width axle and to be prepared if I ever go Dana - 60.
I'll post some pic's in the afternoon P.S.T.
Later, Francois.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Francois, thanks again dude. I'm very aware of the years inwhich Ford used weld on mounts vs. cast. My origional plan was to use the same axle, but I was planning to shorten it down to about 62" wms-wms. After some thought, I elected to forego that and just run them fullwidth to gain the stablilty and to save money on the shortening. So since I'm planning to reuse the stock brackets and radius arms, it really doesn't matter what model HP44 I use, cast or welded brackets. The coil buckets are bolted on as you know, so all that I need to do is unbolt them and flip them over. I've talked to a few others who have done this, one runs them under his ZJ with 36" TSLs wrapped on stock '93 Ford Bronco 15x7.5" wheels with 4" of backspacing and he claims there is no rubbing. I'm fairly certain his arms mount directly under the unibody rails too. Here's his rig:
 

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JS-Economos said:


Running a 5" backspacing on a 15x8 with 37s, my new tracking width would be right at 74.5", compared to my current 68" (tire edge - tire edge).
80s:D its only 2.75 inches on each side!

your gonna run stelies right? there thinner then the alloy rims so will have less clearance problems.

If I was you Id go with less BS.

Good luck..
dave
 

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Heres a pic of my rig that shows how close the tie rod will be. I use the knuckles off of a 79 ford bronco, tie rod over with cross over steering. Rims are about 4" back spacing and they are close. I expect I will Rub the tire when aired down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Weezer, thanks for the pic man, that helps. Just out of curiosity, whats the width on those Swampers - I'm guessing wider than 12.5"? I wonder if I'd have any problems using heims vs. the TREs as far as rim clearance. Most of this is pure speculation and I really won't know until my rig is in pieces on my parents garage floor.:D

Ashman, 80" is CRAZY, this is still my DD by the way.:flipoff2:
 

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JS-Economos said:
Weezer, thanks for the pic man, that helps. Just out of curiosity, whats the width on those Swampers - I'm guessing wider than 12.5"? I wonder if I'd have any problems using heims vs. the TREs as far as rim clearance. Most of this is pure speculation and I really won't know until my rig is in pieces on my parents garage floor.:D

Ashman, 80" is CRAZY, this is still my DD by the way.:flipoff2:

35-16-15:D
 

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Here's a bad front shot, my dig cam seems to be dyeing



Keep in mind I running 17X8 rims with 4.5" B.S.

I had this pic on my H.D. it shows different 44 knuckles
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Weezer, that's wide as shit!:eek: :D

Tonto, you've got a very nice stance with the 37s, but I'm fairly certain the EB body is wider than the XJ's... but I may be wrong. Tonto, is the middle knuckle in that pic the Ford HP44 knuckle?

Still not real sure what I can get away with, ideally I'd like to atleast get a 4" or 4.5" on there and maybe adjust the steering stops a tad and inboard the arms.

Thanks a lot guys, keep'em comming.:D
 

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The center knuckle is an E.B. drum brake knuckle, it may be the same as on a drum brake hi-pin 44 not sure, the left knuckle is a hi-pin disk 44 knuckle and I think the right knuckle is a Scout 44 knuckle.
 
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