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Discussion Starter #1
In short: ordered two steering Dana 60/Ford nine inch hybrid axles from Keith Dill totaling $12,000. Took almost one year to get both axles, not only was the second axle not even complete (missing parts) it was the wrong size. Keith Dill has lied to me just about every time I corresponded with him. He will make promises and promises but in the end he will not do anything he says. He was going to try to make things better with me by making me extra inners, but he never made good on that either. This has been my experience with Keith Dill at ATOR4x4. I hope one will reconsider ordering anything from Keith Dill/ATOR4x4 to avoid all the trouble and money that I lost through this transaction. There was a thread explaining the details called “wagoner machine shop” but for some reason it was deleted…
 

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I've noticed him pimping his crap on ebay,

http://myworld.ebay.com/ator4x4/
Well, He is pimping shit right here on Pirate 4x4.com
He is a fucking crook with a yellow star. by the name of aToRbuggy
This is a real fucking piece of work, sorry you can't search for the thread, cause the fuckin thread is gone...pages and pages of how Kieth Dill and Ator has fucked over people
Next we are gonna see aToR banners flyin high in the venders ad sections
I am sure. is ok though, some day the world will realize that he is a crook and a thief.
O yea, the first 6000 dollar check that was made out to WMS (wagoner machine shop) wasn't cashed by WMS it was cashed by a private individual
account, makes one wonder if the owners of WMS at that time know this info or not
if you buy junk from this guy or this business, you best keep your wallet close to your heart.. good luck.
 

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ha thats funny. hope you get your money back man. too many damn thieves on here and seems like many of them have yellow starts. maybe some yellow stars should be taken away!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Its amazing how people like Keith Dill/atorbuggy can still due business in this world. All I can do is tell everyone that will listen that he is a piece of shit. Thanks to everyone that is listening. Vintagespeed that is great!!!
 

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You guys have been trying for ever now.

Why dont you let the courts handle this ?
 

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seeing this posted in the bad sellers section, ......... PRICELESS!!! Mal, I am glad that you were able to find the check that you wrote to WMS (Wagoner Machine Shop) And we all know that it was not endorsed by WMS owners, which means that the person that signed and cashed the check, committed bank fraud. I bet there were other checks wrote to WMS cashed by that same person as well, and the past owner would be more then happy to help you in any way that he could. Mal unfortunately there are several people that these people from ATOR scammed. People comming up with checks wrote to WMS with the same fraudulent endorsement and calling their local D.A. ...........PRICELESS !!
 

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You guys have been trying for ever now.

Why dont you let the courts handle this ?
Just letting members of pirate 4x4
that there is other options in the vendor section.
and that this vender is a thief, liar,and/or a crook.

If I generated enuf monies for a banner and a yellow star,
would pirate 4x4.com take said monies? if they would
please PM me a price for ad space...

banner would say....I don't know, something like
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Kieth Dill and aToR Sucks, spend your hard earned currency
anywhere exept there.
--------------------------------------------------------------
 

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The Piratenite
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In short: ordered two steering Dana 60/Ford nine inch hybrid axles from Keith Dill totaling $12,000. Took almost one year to get both axles, not only was the second axle not even complete (missing parts) it was the wrong size. Keith Dill has lied to me just about every time I corresponded with him. He will make promises and promises but in the end he will not do anything he says. He was going to try to make things better with me by making me extra inners, but he never made good on that either. This has been my experience with Keith Dill at ATOR4x4. I hope one will reconsider ordering anything from Keith Dill/ATOR4x4 to avoid all the trouble and money that I lost through this transaction. There was a thread explaining the details called “wagoner machine shop” but for some reason it was deleted…
Ok so I'll play ball.

I have been following / involved with the ATOR-WMS fiasco since the beginning. WMS used to advertise with us and when it became ATOR they did as well. I know that the transition didn't go as planned and it almost completly sunk the company. we were patient and worked with keith and in the end he did what was expected. John from wagoneer is another story as he has never responded to us nor paid his bill. needless to say I have had my own beef with all paties involved but I don't think any of them are crooks.

That said if any of you feel otherwise now is your chance to air it out. I would like to see some facts not accusations.

Mal

exactly what is wrong or wrong size about your axle and why and how does it differ from the spec sheet you provided before the build ?

exactly what parts are still missing ?

can you provide and accurate timeline of events starting with who did you origanaly work with and give the specs/check and ending with well...today I guess as it seems you are still looking for the end.
 

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The Piratenite
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Wasn't sure if he made good on that shit or not,
I think he should make you what you ordered, instead of trying to fix his fuckup.
you have been pretty vocal on the whole ATOR deal. . so how about some transparency. what is your motivation and why are you involved ?

reading the old WMS thread, didn't Mal buy the axles from or at least throug you ?

where has your info been coming from ?
 

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The Piratenite
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too many damn thieves on here and seems like many of them have yellow starts. maybe some yellow stars should be taken away!
give me a list of them and we will take care of biz.
 

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The Piratenite
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seeing this posted in the bad sellers section, ......... PRICELESS!!! Mal, I am glad that you were able to find the check that you wrote to WMS (Wagoner Machine Shop) And we all know that it was not endorsed by WMS owners, which means that the person that signed and cashed the check, committed bank fraud. I bet there were other checks wrote to WMS cashed by that same person as well, and the past owner would be more then happy to help you in any way that he could. Mal unfortunately there are several people that these people from ATOR scammed. People comming up with checks wrote to WMS with the same fraudulent endorsement and calling their local D.A. ...........PRICELESS !!

Ok I get your involvment here. wife/girlfriend of John the former owner of WMS.

pretty bold statment about being scammed and DA's. how about some facts.

please provide me the mentioned DA's info so I can contact them for follow up.
 

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The Piratenite
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O yea, the first 6000 dollar check that was made out to WMS (wagoner machine shop) wasn't cashed by WMS it was cashed by a private individual
account, makes one wonder if the owners of WMS at that time know this info or not
if you buy junk from this guy or this business, you best keep your wallet close to your heart.. good luck.
if this is the case why are we even discussion ATOR ? if the check was written to WMS then shouldn't the axles have been delivered by John from WMS and not keith from ATOR ?

if bank fraud WAS commited, well it seems to me that we wouldn't be talking about axles, we would be laughing about the clown in jail.

oh and your advise about the wallet... applies to any custom fab shop in my opinion. all the best fab guys I know suck at running a biz and often struggle financially.
 

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The Piratenite
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Just letting members of pirate 4x4
that there is other options in the vendor section.
and that this vender is a thief, liar,and/or a crook.

If I generated enuf monies for a banner and a yellow star,
would pirate 4x4.com take said monies? if they would
please PM me a price for ad space...

banner would say....I don't know, something like
--------------------------------------------------------------
Kieth Dill and aToR Sucks, spend your hard earned currency
anywhere exept there.
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. are your prepaired to defend that statment in court against a liable suit ? or just giving a second hand info opinion ?

2. NO. and were not talking ATOR's banner either.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Things that are wrong with the axles:


Both axles do not follow the original measurements... Axle #1: The offset of the pinion is wrong. The axle is slightly longer than originally planned. The pinion was supposed to have an upward angle of aprox. 10 degrees (don’t have the exact measurements in front of me) there is no pinion angle. Dedenbear inner C was supposed to have been used.
Axle #2: The axle is 3 inches to long. Again pinion angle was supposed to have appox 10 degrees, but there is none. Dedenbear inner C was supposed to have been used. The ram mount is inadequate one support is burned to the stock diff cover. The axle was not even finished when I received it. CTM’s were not installed. Drive slugs were not installed (I still do not have all the parts for the drive slugs).

Approximately ten months went by for me to receive both axles. The axles were supposed to have been completed at week two according to Keith Dill who I have been working with from the start. I got the first axle in June and the second about six months later. During this time I have been calling and sending emails to Keith Dill. He would answer the phone about 20% of the time if I was lucky. Each time I talked to him it was some excuse why he didn’t send the supposedly complete axles. He would then give me some blind promise of sending them out along with some excuse why I haven’t received them. He was creative on each lie he came up with to tell me…

Every time I have talked to Keith he has said that he is sorry all this happened blah blah blah and wants to make it up to me by doing this and that for me. I say Ok how about making me some inner axle shafts for me as spares. He says sure you got it. Give me a couple weeks and I will have them to you. He comes back wanting the dimensions for the axles that he built, so I send the dimensions off. He comes back wanting me to help him out on pirate board (say some good stuff about him) I say OK if he sends me those inners he promised me he would make. He says great. I have yet to receive anything extra from Keith Dill/ATOR. I haven’t even received all the parts that I ordered from ATOR. He has not come through on anything he has told me he would do.


This is the last email that I received from ATOR copied exactly:

AS I HAVE ATTEMPTED TO MAKE GOOD ALL THE WRONGS MADE BY JOHN U HAVE ALSO SAID ONE THING AND THEN ANOTHER. U RESTATE WHAT HAS BEEN STATED AND IT SHALL BE DONE. BUT UNTIL U DO THIS I DONT SEE GIVING U 300.00 FOR NO SERVICE JUST AS U WILL NOT GIVE ME OR ANY OTHER SHOP 300.00 WITH OUT A PRODUCT.OH BY THE WAY MY NAME IS TOBY U CAN CONTACT ME AT 940-995-2211 OR COME BY OUR SHOP AND WOULD BE GLAD TO SORT THIS OUT.

Couldn’t really understand exactly what he was trying to state, but I get a vibe that his company did no wrong…


The first check was written to WMS per Keith Dill. I was not informed in any way that John left and took WMS with him. The first check was cashed by a William Walker of I believe Walker Machine Shop (WMS). I am still looking into Bank fraud at this time.

I have Fabricator of this board doing all of my Fab work. He gets all of his information from me. Without his help I probably would not have gotten what I did out of Keith Dill!


Mal
 

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The Piratenite
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Mal,

thanks for your side of the story.

first off I can understand your fustration and the other hand I see some inconsistientys in your story. At least compared to your emails sent to kieth.

FWIW. 10 months for 2 custom axles, I laugh...I paid 15k for my camo60's from sandy cone and they took a year. you were a fool to think they would take 2 weeks, dynatrac couldn't even ship stock axles in that time.

1. do you have a copy of the origanal work order that states the dimensions your ordered ? seems to me you have mismeasured and changed your mind during the build. which of course is ok but strying to strong arm a vendor into free goods or services to cover seems shady to me.

2. so parts still owed are the same as your email to keith ? drive slugs parts ? if I am missing something again please provide me a copy of the origanal purchase agreement and I will assure you it will be sent pronto.

4. I would be pissed also if I got caught up in what turn out to be a shit storm of one biz trying to buy another. you have every right to be pissed. it was your hard earned money buying your dream axles. I understand that. I am going to ask you to consider for a moment that from my experiance and talking with both sides and key players that your anger and frustration is aimed slightly in the wrong direction. I seriously doubt that Kieth or Bill are crooks or scamm artist. I belive Kieth is a hornable and well intentioned guy trying to make the best of a pretty bad situation.


5. lets try this. lets take fabricator out of the loop. I will offer to step in and see if we can't bring you the satisfaction your looking for. can you email me the build order and a detailed list of what is not completed ?

6. the check. you made it out to WMS and it was cashed by WMS. granted it wasn't the wms you might have thought because of the looming sale but it was cashed by the guys who provided the axles. which from what I gathered is alot more then what you would have got from the origanal owner of WMS who was all but done.

bottom line. should you be pissed that your dream axles didn't quite meet your expetations ? yup and that sucks. Is kieth a crook ? I don't think so. if you do then lets end this on pirate and you need to go sue him. if you want pirates help, then lets see what we can do to get as close as possible to satisfaction and move on.

camo
 
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