Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 70 Chevy that I bought with a 5.5" block in the rear. The rear spring also had a Helwig helper spring paired with what I assume was the original leaf.

I am looking at replacing the rear block and spring with a lifted 5.5" spring from either Superlift or maybe calling Alcan for a custom spring.

My question is what would ride better overall the block plus a stock spring or the fully arched 5.5" lift spring? I would imagine the arched spring would have a much firmer spring rate then a flatter spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
i'll be nice

if its a street queen, stick with the block. but a 5.5 inch block? that's just dangerous.

if it will see trails, go with full spring.

You answered your own question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
i'll be nice

if its a street queen, stick with the block. but a 5.5 inch block? that's just dangerous.

if it will see trails, go with full spring.

You answered your own question.
a full spring for that kind of lift will be stiff and wont flex well,using a flatter spring and a properly installed block will increase flex on the trail ,i think you've got it backwards matty,just my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
:rolleyes:

A properly engineered lift spring will flex just fine. Lift blocks increase spring wrap.
i know that leaf springs and lift blocks are not exactly the best thing. i also know that if you are trying to acheive 6 inches of lift for a vehicle that will be primarily used for rock crawling, a 3 inch spring pack and a 3 inch block
will flex a 1000 times better than a 6 inch spring pack by itself.of course if mud riding is your game then sure,eliminate the block idea and just use the 6 inch leaf.ive seen plenty of leaves and block set ups that perform excellent.as far as wrap goes,you need to install an anti-wrap bar for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,937 Posts
i know that leaf springs and lift blocks are not exactly the best thing. i also know that if you are trying to acheive 6 inches of lift for a vehicle that will be primarily used for rock crawling, a 3 inch spring pack and a 3 inch block
will flex a 1000 times better than a 6 inch spring pack by itself.of course if mud riding is your game then sure,eliminate the block idea and just use the 6 inch leaf.ive seen plenty of leaves and block set ups that perform excellent.as far as wrap goes,you need to install an anti-wrap bar for sure.
Wish I had picks. The 8" lift springs in my 78 250 flex just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
Cheap solution is to do a shackle flip in the rear and get rid of the helper spring. You will probably only need a 2-3" block at most then. It will flex better and be more suitable for trail riding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
614 Posts
Small blocks are fine, i run a 2" block, Chevy 63's, dual cases, 22RE and a smaller shackle and I have minimal axle wrap. Setting up the axle for proper angle will decrease the wrap, it's still there but livable. Get some good blocks too, not the Kragen cast cheapos.

If the axle wrap gets too bad you could always run an anti-wrap bar. Iv'e been running the above combo for close to 5 years without an anti-wrap bar and I have never had an issue, but I also check all of my U-bolts before each trip just to make sure and they have all stayed tight.

If you do the shackle flip try not to go to crazy on the shackle length, this will add to the axle wrap issue but the anti-wrap bar would take care of all that. Run what makes sense to you and will still be safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,010 Posts
Cheap solution is to do a shackle flip in the rear and get rid of the helper spring. You will probably only need a 2-3" block at most then. It will flex better and be more suitable for trail riding.
X2 on this idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
a full spring for that kind of lift will be stiff and wont flex well,using a flatter spring and a properly installed block will increase flex on the trail ,i think you've got it backwards matty,just my .02
A full spring in a lift kit has a higher spring rate to achieve the lift. If engineered correctly...aka don't buy shit springs, they will flex just fine. Sure it might have a slightly stiffer ride than stock, but it is what it is.

If he is looking for the best ride, stick with blocks, add a traction bar. I might not have made that clear.

Also, as was said...and i had a brain fart on this one...shackle flip. Thats where its at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I am well aware of spring wrap and can solve the needed calcs for that. This is a 70 K15 (Longbed truck) it will be my new daily driver. Maybe the occasional hunting trip now and again, No hardcore wheeling in a vehicle this size.

I was surprised to see that the lift block was 5.5", the appearance of the truck did not seem to be that high. I am leaning towards dropping the block and going with an appropriate spring to fit the front lift spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
I am leaning towards dropping the block and going with an appropriate spring to fit the front lift spring.

best idea yet.....

Sounds like you will be using your truck for its intended purpose a truck. So who knows what will be thrown in the bed and towed behind it. Blocks are not worth the time imo. Get the spring and not think twice about it. Good Luck man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,248 Posts
i know that leaf springs and lift blocks are not exactly the best thing. i also know that if you are trying to acheive 6 inches of lift for a vehicle that will be primarily used for rock crawling, a 3 inch spring pack and a 3 inch block
will flex a 1000 times better than a 6 inch spring pack by itself.of course if mud riding is your game then sure,eliminate the block idea and just use the 6 inch leaf.ive seen plenty of leaves and block set ups that perform excellent.as far as wrap goes,you need to install an anti-wrap bar for sure.

Shackle flip, yo!!! 52's up front!!! :flipoff2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,600 Posts
A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding spring design. Larger arches will not necessarily increase the spring rate, nor do lift springs have a higher spring rate to achieve their lift properties. Arch certainly plays into things, but it is not the only factor. The number of leaves, the total friction between them based on several factors including the end cuts, paint, slide pads, quantity of leaves, etc, and the width, thickness, length, and material used in the springs.

So what's my point? Do a shackle flip and run a small block if you want to go budget. If you want to spend some money on springs call up Alcan or any other number of custom spring manufacturers. They will be able to build a pack with the right number of long, thin, relatively flat leaves that will result in the height you desire and the ride quality you desire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,349 Posts
A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding spring design. Larger arches will not necessarily increase the spring rate, nor do lift springs have a higher spring rate to achieve their lift properties. Arch certainly plays into things, but it is not the only factor. The number of leaves, the total friction between them based on several factors including the end cuts, paint, slide pads, quantity of leaves, etc, and the width, thickness, length, and material used in the springs.

So what's my point? Do a shackle flip and run a small block if you want to go budget. If you want to spend some money on springs call up Alcan or any other number of custom spring manufacturers. They will be able to build a pack with the right number of long, thin, relatively flat leaves that will result in the height you desire and the ride quality you desire.
AMEN Brother.

There is nothing inherently more stiff in an arched spring (well a little bit, but not much). Most aftermarket manufacturers make them stiffer, but it doesn't have to be that way. If you spec a 220 lb/inch spring with 3" of lift, or a 220lb/inch spring with 5" of lift, they both have the same spring rate. Put put the same weight in the bed of either one, and they will settle the same amount.

That said, if I was building it with occasional hauling in mind, I would go with a spring with the desired arch in mind, and then add an overload that didn't add to the spring rate till you got about 3" into the compression. That will give you a tolerable ride unloaded, but will keep a soft spring from settling too low with a load on it. Another option would be air bag overloads, to add to the spring rate as needed, without being a pain in the ass otherwise.

First thing you need to do is make sure you know how yu are going to use it(seems you already have a good idea on that) and then order your springs accordingly.


Doug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,937 Posts
AMEN Brother.

There is nothing inherently more stiff in an arched spring (well a little bit, but not much). Most aftermarket manufacturers make them stiffer, but it doesn't have to be that way. If you spec a 220 lb/inch spring with 3" of lift, or a 220lb/inch spring with 5" of lift, they both have the same spring rate. Put put the same weight in the bed of either one, and they will settle the same amount.

That said, if I was building it with occasional hauling in mind, I would go with a spring with the desired arch in mind, and then add an overload that didn't add to the spring rate till you got about 3" into the compression. That will give you a tolerable ride unloaded, but will keep a soft spring from settling too low with a load on it. Another option would be air bag overloads, to add to the spring rate as needed, without being a pain in the ass otherwise.

First thing you need to do is make sure you know how yu are going to use it(seems you already have a good idea on that) and then order your springs accordingly.


Doug
Ahmen
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top