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Discussion Starter #1
what trans /t-case would be better for wheelin ? it'll be behind a well built 302 and going in a xj cherokee . i searched and didn't really find much .

c-4 /dana20 or a c-6 / ?t-case?

did the c-4's only come in early broncos ? did they only come with dana20's ?

what about the c-6 for a small block ? what t-cases did they come with ?

i'm leaning toward a c-4/20 setup because it would be lighter and shorter and takes less power to turn .

what would you guys use .

any good web sites on this setup or places to get parts from

thanks
 

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i personally would not go with a c-6. although bulletproof, they rob a LOT of power (i believe its somewhere around 36%). i found i lost nearly 60 horses from my big block just through the c-6. i am switching over to an np435 4 speed manual and an np-208/np-205 doubler. pluss, i hear the small block c-6's are hard to come by. don't know what the c-4 had for a transfer case other than the 20, but i know some ford F-150's had them. even a good shape AOD would work with something like an np-208 or BW-1356. these should be fairly plentifull as they came in many ford trucks throughout the years. my 208 never gave me any problems, and my 1356 in my daily driver has held up well. even if they are chain driven with mag and aluminum housings. but i would recomend the np-205 becouse they are strong as hell, and can be made into twin stick operation. the 205 should bolt up behind almost any tranny with the proper spacer housing.
 

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as far as I know the C4 only came with the D20, That is in the EB. If you decide to go that route EB C4 are getting hard to find and a bit pricey. I'd say in the neighborhood of $300 for a used trans, The dana 20's are fairly easy to find and fairly cheap. I picked up one here on the board for $50, There are 2 D20's that came in the bronco the "t" shift which had a 2.46 to 1 ratio and the "j" shift which had a 2.34 to 1 ratio. I hope that helps you a bit on your decision
 

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mtucrash said:
i personally would not go with a c-6. although bulletproof, they rob a LOT of power (i believe its somewhere around 36%). i found i lost nearly 60 horses from my big block just through the c-6. i am switching over to an np435 4 speed manual and an np-208/np-205 doubler. pluss, i hear the small block c-6's are hard to come by. don't know what the c-4 had for a transfer case other than the 20, but i know some ford F-150's had them. even a good shape AOD would work with something like an np-208 or BW-1356. these should be fairly plentifull as they came in many ford trucks throughout the years. my 208 never gave me any problems, and my 1356 in my daily driver has held up well. even if they are chain driven with mag and aluminum housings. but i would recomend the np-205 becouse they are strong as hell, and can be made into twin stick operation. the 205 should bolt up behind almost any tranny with the proper spacer housing.
True, the C6 is a power hog in stock form. I ended up rollerizing mine to make it more efficient. I like knowing that this tranny will survive anything I can throw at it.

atlas bolts up with a simple mod to the stock output shaft to a 4x4 C6- just look for one with the aluminum adapter and trim the output shaft so that it's flush with the t-case mounting surface a bolt it up. Of course you have to order the atlas with a 31 spline input for this to work. You could also do an AOD, just look for f-150 that are 4x4. They all have the same round jeep bolt pattern for a t-case, just the output shaft is larger. You could take an AOD, respline the output shaft to 23 spline and keep your stock t-case or go to a flipped jeep 300.
 

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uroc711 said:
bw1350 is lighter.driver side drop. requires different adapter housing than dana 20.
Need a C5 tailhousing and shaft to run that. Better off just using a C5 (83-83 Ranger, 84 Bronco II) with a C4 bellhousing to bolt it to the Windsor block. DD Machine makes an awesome Doubler for these. Check out the price too!:smokin:


Sean :cool:
 

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rock-rod said:
True, the C6 is a power hog in stock form. I ended up rollerizing mine to make it more efficient. I like knowing that this tranny will survive anything I can throw at it.
X2

I am building a 351W for my 88 4Runner and I'm using a Windsor C6. TCI makes some go-better hardware for these trannies and with a good cooler you can be guaranteed they will hold up to almost anything. Sure you lose a little power but the torque multiplication makes up for it when crawling.


Sean :cool:
 

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C5 case rebuilt with c4 internals, reverse manual VB with a dana20 twin sticked with 4:1 gears :smokin:

A 1350 or d20 case will both work with a c4/5 tranny with the right tailshaft, no aftermarket adapter needed.
 

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mtucrash said:
i personally would not go with a c-6. although bulletproof, they rob a LOT of power (i believe its somewhere around 36%). i found i lost nearly 60 horses from my big block just through the c-6. i am switching over to an np435 4 speed manual and an np-208/np-205 doubler. pluss, i hear the small block c-6's are hard to come by. don't know what the c-4 had for a transfer case other than the 20, but i know some ford F-150's had them. even a good shape AOD would work with something like an np-208 or BW-1356. these should be fairly plentifull as they came in many ford trucks throughout the years. my 208 never gave me any problems, and my 1356 in my daily driver has held up well. even if they are chain driven with mag and aluminum housings. but i would recomend the np-205 becouse they are strong as hell, and can be made into twin stick operation. the 205 should bolt up behind almost any tranny with the proper spacer housing.

I disagree here....What most fail to realize is that while the c6 in stock form uses thrust washers instead of roller needle bearings(can be changed) one of the biggest issues of power loss is your choice of converter. Yes, the thrust washers create more friction(power loss) but it is not that pronounced as long as you are choosing a good efficient converter.

36% is way, way off....Show me the stats on that one.

I ran an AOD originally and switched around different converters seeing what I like for the type of terrain I wheel.

The 2500 in the AOD was awesome for holeshot and responsiveness, but I didn't like crawling rock piles and slow technical wheeling with the higher stall.....1800 ended up being about the best compromise for the stuff I like to wheel.

I went to a C6 and used a good 1800 stall converter that is very efficient and noticed very little difference between it and the AOD in performance.

I can tell you if I was using a 1300(Would make mine an absolute DOG) stall converter and compared it to the AOD with 2200 or 2500 converter I would have swore the C6 was robbing a ton of power.....However, it would have really been the converter difference that made it "feel" different.

I am not trying to get into a flaming war here, just point out that the C6 is a good choice and that the CONVERTER is more the issue here than the thrust washers in the C6......

Too many people are going from a c4 or aod with 1800 or 2000 stall and putting in a C6 with 1300 0r 1400 stall and "thinking" the major difference they are feelign is the transmission, when really it is the different converters.

I hope this helps others understand a little better how important the converter choice is on your auto....It can be the difference in you loving your combination, or being sore dissappointed with the performance of it.

The C6 gets a bad rap for powerloss and overheating issues under hard use due to poor converter choices. Get a good converter, good transmission cooler, and the C6 is an awesome choice for a rugged transmission for the trail....Put it in and forget about it.
 

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sn0border88 said:
C5 case rebuilt with c4 internals, reverse manual VB with a dana20 twin sticked with 4:1 gears :smokin:

A 1350 or d20 case will both work with a c4/5 tranny with the right tailshaft, no aftermarket adapter needed.
I just want to clarify a little.

If you want to run the BW1350/1354 you need the original C5 tailhousing.

To run the D20 you would need to find a "now-getting-a-little-harder-to-find" EB C4 tailhousing. If you can't find one, and that may very well happen, you can buy one from places like Novak, Advance or Wild Horses but they are $400-450 US. http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/44.asp


Sean :cool:
 

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Jy Dog said:
I disagree here....What most fail to realize is that while the c6 in stock form uses thrust washers instead of roller needle bearings(can be changed) one of the biggest issues of power loss is your choice of converter. Yes, the thrust washers create more friction(power loss) but it is not that pronounced as long as you are choosing a good efficient converter.

36% is way, way off....Show me the stats on that one.

I ran an AOD originally and switched around different converters seeing what I like for the type of terrain I wheel.

The 2500 in the AOD was awesome for holeshot and responsiveness, but I didn't like crawling rock piles and slow technical wheeling with the higher stall.....1800 ended up being about the best compromise for the stuff I like to wheel.

I went to a C6 and used a good 1800 stall converter that is very efficient and noticed very little difference between it and the AOD in performance.

I can tell you if I was using a 1300(Would make mine an absolute DOG) stall converter and compared it to the AOD with 2200 or 2500 converter I would have swore the C6 was robbing a ton of power.....However, it would have really been the converter difference that made it "feel" different.

I am not trying to get into a flaming war here, just point out that the C6 is a good choice and that the CONVERTER is more the issue here than the thrust washers in the C6......

Too many people are going from a c4 or aod with 1800 or 2000 stall and putting in a C6 with 1300 0r 1400 stall and "thinking" the major difference they are feelign is the transmission, when really it is the different converters.

I hope this helps others understand a little better how important the converter choice is on your auto....It can be the difference in you loving your combination, or being sore dissappointed with the performance of it.

The C6 gets a bad rap for powerloss and overheating issues under hard use due to poor converter choices. Get a good converter, good transmission cooler, and the C6 is an awesome choice for a rugged transmission for the trail....Put it in and forget about it.
Well said. What converter are you using that you found made all the difference?


Sean :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
so a bronco 2 or ranger has a c-5 in them ? thanks for all the help and info....please keep it coming .

i have found a c-4 for a eb for a good price . will a t-case for a 3speed eb bolt to the auto ?
 

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NOS/86 said:
so a bronco 2 or ranger has a c-5 in them ? thanks for all the help and info....please keep it coming .
Only 83-84 and maybe some 85s. I'm in Canada so not absolutely sure about the US models. The two C5s I have are from 84 Bronco IIs.

i have found a c-4 for a eb for a good price . will a t-case for a 3speed eb bolt to the auto ?
Yes. It will be a Dana 20 t-case. All gear, 2.46:1 ratio and twin-stickable.


Sean :cool:
 

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TOUGHGUY said:
Well said. What converter are you using that you found made all the difference?


Sean :cool:

Sean,

I used to be a transmission service tech, but do not claim to be an expert on converters. That said, you do not want a generic "new' or generic "rebuilt" converter, imo.

You want a heavy duty one with the brazed torrington bearings that is efficient and not just "loosened up" (i.e. fins bent/adjusted to allow more stall).

Anything around 2000 stall or so should drop down to a 10" converter. There are aftermarket companies who build these and really build an excelellent converter.....Art Carr and some of the Performance shops out there. I've seen guys run 10" converters with 2500 stall and the converter is so efficient that it actually ran cooler than a stock generic converter.

While they are expensive (the 10" ones are around $400 and change) they are night and day different in how they perform versus a stock converter(12") that was "loosened up" to provide that amount of stall.

I wanted to run around 1600 to 1800 stall and bought a Heavy Duty 12" converter that was rebuilt with good parts and the brazed torrington bearings. It was aroudn $ 150 or so to my door and I have been real happy with it. Obviously, you want to stay away from the $90 dollar crap, as those converters make the C6 feel very "sluggish" and groggy, in my experience.

I hope this helps.

Steve
 

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What all would you need to bolt a dana 300 transfer to a C-4?
Thanks
 
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