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Sub = submarine. As noted, its the crotch belt.

Frankly, I don't feel that (the 5th point in a 5 point..) it does much in a 4x4, if you have a relatively upright seating position.

5 points come from racing, where a reclined position puts the driver much more horizonal, and with the very high speeds involved, inertia coudl make a driver go out the bottom of the harness without that belt.


Myself, I'm putting 4 points with 2" straps into my upcoming flattie build.
I used to agree with this. However, after running JRT's rig, and constantly tightening the lap belt, and talking with folks who've raced, the 5th is critical.

Here's why: The lap holds you down. The shoulders are supposed to hold you back, but to do so they pull UP on the lap. This loosens the lap. With the 5th, this doesnt happen. I used to adjust JRT's harness every couple courses. I dont have to adjust the ftoy harness at all over a whole weekend. Same harness, bought from the same place. One is 5 point, one is 4.
 

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I like the sub belt because when you tighten your shoulder ones the lap belt simes to go up to your belly and bugs me, So when i have the sub on it keeps it down. I moslty wear only a lap belt on soft rock crawling that I i know theres no way im going to land on my top. but I think 5 is the way to go

edit. And keeps you from sliding down the seat. (only happen to me when I was in a dezert race In side a buggy.... it wasnt ajusted to me thats why
 

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Good for you, bro. I had my flatty out for the first time ever about 5 years ago, and i had a feeling i should put my shoulder belts on. i rallied up a steep hill and, needless to say, stalled it out 3/4 of the way up the hill, couldn't get it started again, and started sliding backwards down with the motor stalled. When i hit the bottom my suspension compressed and it launched me into a side flip, bouncing my cage on the ground and flipping my flatty back onto all fours. my cage was tied to my frame, and that four point summit belt held me tight in my seat. now i buckle my belt even when i pull my buggy off the trailer. better to be safe these days.

holley
 

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Had my 1st roll myself this year. I can't speak enough about how I feel about the cage. It is frame tied. I also have 4 points harnesses, and at the time was only wearing the lap belts. The 8 year old passenger had all 4 straps on. There were no injuries, and I barely felt like I moved in the seat, but I can't help but ponder how I would have felt with the shoulder straps on. Like good brakes and steering, a proper cage, and restraints are of paramount importance for off-roading. More important than tires, horsepower, lockers, etc.... IMHO.
 

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Agreed that there is no reason not to build a cage, but there is also no excuse not to wear helmet, i mean i don't really care if you have a properly built cage or not, majority of buggies out there dimension wise have bars within head range,
Apparently you missed the part where I mentioned a properly built buggy. Too many people put safety secondary to performance, and almost every moon buggy is a perfect example. You're very right, many rigs have tubes within head range, but if properly designed this doesn't need to be the case. If you're gonna build something from scratch, take the time to figure out how your body can move around, and make sure that you dont put tubes where your head is gonna hit em. Again, a helmet is still a good idea, I was never saying it wasn't. The harnesses and cage are still the most important thing for our sport though. At $50 a seat there really is little excuse to not have harnesses.

Dallas
 

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Private property, in the middle of the state...

I haven't been up in the UP for years wheeling.. is there anything left that open up there? It ends up being shorter for us downstaters to go into Canada, then head to the western side of the UP.
While it's getting worse, it beats the Hell out of Indiana. Marquette county still has some open seasonal roads and if you just happen to know a logger, it helps- a LOT!

Ontanagon county isn't worth the fuel to get there just to find the seasonals closed with big gates. In Marquette county, those get dealt with by dynamite!
 

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Yeah you may look a little odd, but tough shit you probably just saved your brain from turning into soup.
Nonsense, everybody knows I'm big pimpin in my helmet. :grinpimp:

More seriously, I hope you father gets better and that other people learn from his example. Just because we go 10-12 mph doesn't mean we don't have hard impacts that require good cages.
 

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While it's getting worse, it beats the Hell out of Indiana. Marquette county still has some open seasonal roads and if you just happen to know a logger, it helps- a LOT!

Ontanagon county isn't worth the fuel to get there just to find the seasonals closed with big gates. In Marquette county, those get dealt with by dynamite!
Yeah, we used to run our Yooper Tour over in Limestone years back....




Ah, good info about the 5th strap holding the belt down, hadn't thought about that...makes sense, now that I think about it.... ok, 5 points it is!!
 

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In addition to the 5-pt harness and proper cage, the grab bar for passengers is also important. As the driver you're undoubtely hanging on to the steering wheel, but the passenger (could be anyone your dad, fiance, in-law, pastor/rabbi, tennis coach, hot date with a nice rack) could have an elbow out the window or a hand under the roof. With a grab bar in arms reach and harness cinched down, he wont move much relative to the seat and wont risk crushing a limb. Grab bars can even telescope with a detent to fit the gorillas to the little dudes you trail ride with.

When the dust settles, everyone wants to walk away from a roll, right the rig, and go at it again with another line.
 

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If the OP's story isnt enough of a reality check, let the below series of pics be it.




















Stay safe folks.
 

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That story scares me to death. I am about to finish my first open top Jeep build and I dont have any harnesses . I just dont have the money ATM....i have a full cage that I will be going outside and adding more tube to after I post this ....I have normal lap/shoulder seatbelts and it scares me to think that my wife could get hurt because of me not getting better safety gear. Maybe someone with the right knowledge about these things should make a sticky about the pros's and cons of different seats and harnesses , if there isnt one already. I would gladly take any advice as to a good cheap set of seats and harnesses as long as they were safe and proven. I am glad that his dad is going to be ok , I cant imagine how he felt .


:( If you do not feel safe with the factory style belt..(neither would I) for the type of wheelin your gonna be doing, then why take the risk? I am surprised to see how many people say they dont have harnesses or just a lap belt only in a rig they plan on wheelin' half way hard.

Before we leave the trailor, my wife and I put on our lap belts, when we get to a trail we dont know or to one I do know and there is even a slight chance of a rollover we put on the shoulder straps.

Harnesses are probably the cheapest thing you can put in your buggy but the most important. You can get good safe harnesses cheap, cheaper then your life that is, how much is a ER bill these days? I bet 100X more then the belts would have cost, not to mention your done wheelin' for the day and the headache you have for a week.

Here are some "Cheap" harnesses, IMHO they are not even worth griping about, I bought harnesses without even thinking about it and how much they cost, safety first, hold off on those fancy shifters or some other bling until the safety stuff is done first;)


http://store.summitracing.com/partd...OB-50502-18-23&N=700+-128276+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...part=RCI-9210D&N=700+-128276+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...B-50502-16-233&N=700+-128276+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...rt=SIM-29061BK&N=700+-128276+115&autoview=sku

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_88600_-1

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_339656_-1


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SIMP...073983QQihZ001QQcategoryZ107069QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RJS-...yZ107069QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Simp...yZ107069QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SIMP...yZ107069QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 

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If the OP's story isnt enough of a reality check, let the below series of pics be it.
Stay safe folks.

Holy shiate:eek::eek: Is that you Manning? Damn, ripped the body off the frame...wow...then you walked away? Did you go buy a lotto ticket that day, or did you figure all your luck was used up?
 

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In addition to the 5-pt harness and proper cage, the grab bar for passengers is also important. rig

I somewhat agree, I have toyed with the ideal of putting one in the pass. side of my rig but my wife, (who is in there 90% of the time) doesnt think she would like it, she already knows to cross her arms and grab each oposite shoulder belt, I honostly think you could hold on to the shoulder straps in a X fashion better then a grab bar, just my thoughts,

any way anytime someone who I am not sure if they know what to do in a rollover is riding with me, before we go anywhere I explain to them what to do while we are adjusting the belts for them, I tell to no matter what NEVER put your arms or hands outside the door/window and to cross the arms and grab the belts, "With those belts on, your not going anywhere, except for a ride":D
 

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No not me, i'd have to search for the original thread but this happened at Windrock. Yeah you see it, complete separation of body & frame, sheared body mounts, ripped out wheel centers, it was a freak accident and both guys walked. I keep it handy to e-smack those that get the exhaust tubing cage ideas or still run their factory jeep cage.

Here's another kick in the ass. Who knows what the driver was thinking... but cage + harness and she walked.


Holy shiate:eek::eek: Is that you Manning? Damn, ripped the body off the frame...wow...then you walked away? Did you go buy a lotto ticket that day, or did you figure all your luck was used up?
 

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thats some crazy shit stock cabs dont hold up so good just flopping my buddies pushed the top of the cab over a foot good thing i bought a tube bender so everyone of my friends can benefit and stay safe
 
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