I thought I would ask ya'll to see what ya think. Here's the scenario: '88 Range Rover originally fitted with a 3 wire, 65 amp Lucas alternator. Replaced Lucas with Bosch truck alternator from Volvo truck (120 amp rating). I have a red top Optima for a battery. Power draining accessories include: H 3000 lights, W 10,000 lb winch, H4 55/80 watt headlights. Anytime I turn on something high amperage the truck starts to miss or surge and then(usually) slowly recovers. This past weekend I had to winch out a badly stuck IH Scout and it about killed my engine when under load, even with the engine reved up to 2500 rpm. Took the alternator to a shop had them put it on the machine. At 3500 rpm the alternator would put out 142 amps. They said I need dual batteries (which I want anyway). I'm afraid that won't fix my problem. I can be running down the road with lights off (daytime of course) switch on the AC and the truck will stumble for a second. Seeing how that is a "stock" item I don't think Dual batteries will help. So, today I took the truck to another local shop and he put a tester at the wire coming from the alternator With the lights on etc. it was putting out 65 amps, tap the winch remote, it would jump to over 100 amps. He then put it at the battery and said it was only taking about 3 -6 amps. He said the wiring could be bad or the battery is bad. Do Optimas go bad just like that? It still starts fine. Any suggestions? I went over to a local electronic supply place and bought some 6 GA wire. Iplan to replace the wire from the alternator->starter->battery. Any help would be appreciated.
Charging, alternator, battery problem?
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the pulley size is that of stock or smaller. The original pulley on the Bosch was bigger. I used a pulley off a Delco alternator. A buddy of mine couldn't use it. It was originally on one of the aftermarket HO Delcos that you can get in Jeg's or Summit. It's even chromed! 
(with original bigger pulley on Bosch, alternator put out 40 amps @ 3500rpm, with smaller Delco pulley alternator put out 142 amps @ 3500 rpm) The voltage is fine at idle 14.4 volts I think, but when you flip on the lights and tap the winch (with no load on winch cable) it drops to 8- 9 volts and then will recover as soon as you stop winching. Last time I checked it while having this problem it was a little over 12 volts. I check it again tonight to be sure. I put a charger on it last night and amps stayed at zero as if it was fully charged. Any Ideas?
(with original bigger pulley on Bosch, alternator put out 40 amps @ 3500rpm, with smaller Delco pulley alternator put out 142 amps @ 3500 rpm) The voltage is fine at idle 14.4 volts I think, but when you flip on the lights and tap the winch (with no load on winch cable) it drops to 8- 9 volts and then will recover as soon as you stop winching. Last time I checked it while having this problem it was a little over 12 volts. I check it again tonight to be sure. I put a charger on it last night and amps stayed at zero as if it was fully charged. Any Ideas?That's what I was Kind of thinking after I saw that there was only 3 amps showing coming from the alt. at the battery. I guess I'll take it to the local HO Reiley's and see what they say. I think they sell Optima's. I'll let you know what they said.
just got the battery tested. bad battery. guy said he'd never seen a bad Optima and i said now you have. at least it's still under warranty. They wouldn't take it backat O' Reiley's w/o a reciept so, I've got to take it to Interstate tommorrow. thanks for the help.
Not the battery
Took the battery by Interstate and they said the battery was o.k. Borrowed a battery from work and installed it. It still has the miss when under load. So, when I got home I took the alternator back off and removed the back cover. On the back of the alternator there is a pig tail of sort that forms a single lead. To this is attached a white wire(from the RR factory harness) with dead end wire spliced in (white also) - read in the manual that this dead end ( not used) terminal is for the split charging option. Is this right? The pig tail that stuck out of the cover had one wire broken at the solder joint. Don't know where it goes. lots of dirt and crud keep me from finding where it went. Anybody know what this wire does on a factory set up? Does it regulate voltage or something? what does the brown wire w/ yellow trace do? Is it the tach? While I was at it I replaced all the wires from alt->starter solenoid-> battery with 6 ga wire.
Red Rangie- That was my plan if I go to dual batteries; one yellow top for winching/lights etc. and a red top for ignition and starting. I don't use my winch very much, in fact, I have never used it on myself (knock on wood) to get unstuck, so I figured a red top would suffice. Anyone come up with a do-it-yourself dual battery set up with an isolator? Haven't done a search in the archives yet.
Took the battery by Interstate and they said the battery was o.k. Borrowed a battery from work and installed it. It still has the miss when under load. So, when I got home I took the alternator back off and removed the back cover. On the back of the alternator there is a pig tail of sort that forms a single lead. To this is attached a white wire(from the RR factory harness) with dead end wire spliced in (white also) - read in the manual that this dead end ( not used) terminal is for the split charging option. Is this right? The pig tail that stuck out of the cover had one wire broken at the solder joint. Don't know where it goes. lots of dirt and crud keep me from finding where it went. Anybody know what this wire does on a factory set up? Does it regulate voltage or something? what does the brown wire w/ yellow trace do? Is it the tach? While I was at it I replaced all the wires from alt->starter solenoid-> battery with 6 ga wire.
Red Rangie- That was my plan if I go to dual batteries; one yellow top for winching/lights etc. and a red top for ignition and starting. I don't use my winch very much, in fact, I have never used it on myself (knock on wood) to get unstuck, so I figured a red top would suffice. Anyone come up with a do-it-yourself dual battery set up with an isolator? Haven't done a search in the archives yet.
Check your grounds also. You might have a good ground between the alternator and ground, but a bad one between the alternator and the battery (or just a bad ground at the battery). If you have a high resistance ground somewhere, it may work just fine for low current draw applications, but when you put a real load on it, it won't conduct well enough.
Paul
Paul
the latest: replaced all the power wires. took the alternator back to the shop had them replace the voltage regulator just to appease me. took the ground off the battery tested it for resistance cleaned and sanded all the grounding points along the cable, buttoned everything up and fired up the engine. still the same as soon as you start to flip on anything electrical i.e. low beam headlights you can hear it starting to miss. it's worse at idle and disappears at higher revs with low beam only. you turn on the highbeams and Hellas and after a while of slow driving it will start to miss. like it starts to drain or something. I'm wondering if it is ignition. I put a voltmeter on the battery while it was running, 14.4 volts. even while the truck was running like crap it was staying at 14.4 volts. I put the voltmeter across the coil and the voltage seemed to be jumping around. I saw anywhere from 6 volts to 18 volts ? could be just my crappy volt meter. I tried running a wire directly from the coil to the battery to see if this would help, made no change. what next, computer? Pual, I think you may be on the right track. Talked to a tech a LR and he said he had a Discovery that was doing the same thing as mine. It was a bad ground. are there any more grounding straps besides the one at the battery and the one on the hood?. any ideas would help greatly because I'm fresh out!!
as soon as you start to flip on anything electrical i.e. low beam headlights you can hear it starting to miss. it's worse at idle and disappears at higher revs with low beam only. you turn on the highbeams and Hellas and after a while of slow driving it will start to miss. like it starts to drain or something. I'm wondering if it is ignition. I put a voltmeter on the battery while it was running, 14.4 volts. even while the truck was running like crap it was staying at 14.4 volts. I put the voltmeter across the coil and the voltage seemed to be jumping around. I saw anywhere from 6 volts to 18 volts ? could be just my crappy volt meter. I tried running a wire directly from the coil to the battery to see if this would help, made no change. what next, computer? Pual, I think you may be on the right track. Talked to a tech a LR and he said he had a Discovery that was doing the same thing as mine. It was a bad ground. are there any more grounding straps besides the one at the battery and the one on the hood?. any ideas would help greatly because I'm fresh out!!Don't just check the grounds on the fire wall. Check all chassis grounds as well. I used to chase this all the time on audi's/porsches. The audi's (late 70's early 80's) were notorious for this. You don't need to replace the cables in most cases, just clean the contact points.
I noticed that you mentioned that you were replacing the "wires" did this include the battery cables? I have seen a positive cable do bad things to alternators. They can look perfectly fine on the outside, yet have a break or be corroded from the inside out.
good luck. Electrical problems are THE worst, and this is on a lucas system as well. That's like wearing a cheesecloth rainsuit in the rain and expecting to stay dry.
j
I noticed that you mentioned that you were replacing the "wires" did this include the battery cables? I have seen a positive cable do bad things to alternators. They can look perfectly fine on the outside, yet have a break or be corroded from the inside out.
good luck. Electrical problems are THE worst, and this is on a lucas system as well. That's like wearing a cheesecloth rainsuit in the rain and expecting to stay dry.
j
boy is that the truth! yes, I did replace the battery positive cable. and my battery terminals are even gold plated so no problem there something I got at some stereo place. I got them for their dual cable capabilty one for the starter and the other for the winch. even have two spots for other accessories, all held down by serrated allen set screws. are there any grounds under the dash or seats? I know the fix will be something totaly stupid and simple!
so no problem there something I got at some stereo place. I got them for their dual cable capabilty one for the starter and the other for the winch. even have two spots for other accessories, all held down by serrated allen set screws. are there any grounds under the dash or seats? I know the fix will be something totaly stupid and simple!Go down to the dealer and buy the shop manual, or get it from one of the mail order shops. The schematics alone are worth the $150 or so they cost. This will tell you all the ground points. The diagrams in the factory manuals are priceless, and have all the specs you need.UPOVR said:boy is that the truth! yes, I did replace the battery positive cable. and my battery terminals are even gold plated
There are separate electrical manuals as well for most models listing resistance and other specs.
Did you check your coil for the proper resistance? Oil bath coils will give these symptoms as well.
j
UPDATE: It's Fixed
Red Rangie you were right. Changed the coil for one that I had laying around in the garage. Fixed all my problems. Who would ever have guessed that Lucas, The Prince of Darkness, would come to the rescue of the German Count, Bosch. I had a Bosch coil on there and now with the Lucas it runs great. At idle, no missfire. Even with my H4's on high beam, Hella 3000's on, napa tractor rock lights, electric fans, and running the winch (around 250 amps worth of draw total I would guess).........now its time for dual batterys. Anybody researched the isolators you can buy at the RV parts supply houses? other sources?
Red Rangie you were right. Changed the coil for one that I had laying around in the garage. Fixed all my problems. Who would ever have guessed that Lucas, The Prince of Darkness, would come to the rescue of the German Count, Bosch. I had a Bosch coil on there and now with the Lucas it runs great. At idle, no missfire. Even with my H4's on high beam, Hella 3000's on, napa tractor rock lights, electric fans, and running the winch (around 250 amps worth of draw total I would guess).........now its time for dual batterys. Anybody researched the isolators you can buy at the RV parts supply houses? other sources?
If your coil was fried I HIGHLY recommend doing the ignition module update. STC1856.
The ignition module goes bad and fries the coil. It is typified by really high dwell angles so you can check it that way. It is quite unusual to see just a coil go bad on an RRC. You can replace the coil and it will be well for a while but then you new coil gets fried to.
Ron
The ignition module goes bad and fries the coil. It is typified by really high dwell angles so you can check it that way. It is quite unusual to see just a coil go bad on an RRC. You can replace the coil and it will be well for a while but then you new coil gets fried to.
Ron
If you're changing out the module, do yourself a favor and replace the baseplate and pickup inside the distributor -- recurring ignition problems gave me fits for a year, turned out to be a combination of the module, the pickup and bad connections on the ground straps.
Good luck,
Tony
Good luck,
Tony
It is too bad that I cannot type like a literate person, man my post was terrible.
oh well.
The kit relocates the module next to the coil and puts a dummy module on the dizzy in its place. Comes with new connectors and such so any issue there would be knocked out as well.
Ron
oh well.
The kit relocates the module next to the coil and puts a dummy module on the dizzy in its place. Comes with new connectors and such so any issue there would be knocked out as well.
Ron
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