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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi chris,

i am currently running your 4 inch springs. after the rubicon, moab rim, pritchett canyon, hells revenge, etc they have settled in nicely. they flex wonderfully. i am having a problem though and was wondering if the 5 inch springs would get me were i want to be? my drag link is bottoming out on my frame with about 3/4" inch of shock (14 inchers) left. i stuff a bfg 35 15x10-(3inch backspacing) against the firewall bad--->the seam has been beat down and flattened with a sledge hammer...

if i ran the higher lift spring and moved my front axle forward another 3/4-1" with the relocation plates or drilled perch, could i free some clearance for "stuff" with regards to the drag link/frame,firewall/tire and shock bottoming? my only concern is that when i purchased these spring i got the 4''ers because it was the general consensous that they flexed better because they had less arch, and of course were lower and created a slightly more stable vehicle...

ideas?? <IMG SRC="smilies/idea.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/idea.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/paul015s3.JPG">
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/paul013s4.JPG">

see, they flex!
 

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paul, my brother and i have both found interference problems with the frame and drag-link. getting the 5 inch springs would free up another inch or so of compression, but at the limit of compression, you'd be right where you are now, with the drag link hitting the frame. many that i've seen have notched the frame in this area, and gusseted it on top, to allow another inch or two before the drag link hits. i really dont want to go this route, dont want to weaken the frame at all. i have found this not to be a big deal for me. another "solution" is to run a bump stop. moving the axle forward a bit may net you a slight gain, but is not worth it unless your tires are rubbing bad at the rear of the fender well. btw, i run AP 5" fronts, my brother greg runs the 4" allpro's, and we both can hit the draglink under stuffage. hope this helps......brad
 

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just re-read your post and saw that you are rubbing tires. have you redrilled your perches further back?? if not, thats your first step.--brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
so that extra inch of spring that you have over greg doesnt show up in any real trail situation(extra inch or so of stuff)?? do you ever see his 4 inchers flexing better because the spring is a bit flatter??? thanks brad!

im trying to find pix of both your trux in the same situation in my MOAB selection, but dont have any at the same area...all ive got is you guys gettin it!!!! when are we goin back??

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: *mOuNtAiN gOaT* ]
 

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our trucks behave really similar on trail(maybe cause we built them together about the exact same). we have the same amount of lift, he has a bit longer front shackle, and his front hanger is about a half inch lower than mine. i'd say our trucks flex almost the same, maybe mine compresses a little better(don't know why). both of us have removed the bottom leaf of the pack. we'll be back at moab soon. glad you had such a good time, that place is awesome. <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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I don't see how an extra inch of compression will every be noticable, I say redrill the spring perches to keep the tires out of the fenders and add a bumpstop to keep from damaging the shock or draglink. I mean overall you won't get any more total flex from the 5" because they will compress to the same point meaning you will have to run the same length shock to avoid damaging it. So you will just be swapping an inch of compression for an inch of droop and what the hell is the point of that???
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by NE-RokToy:
<STRONG>I don't see how an extra inch of compression will every be noticable, I say redrill the spring perches to keep the tires out of the fenders and add a bumpstop to keep from damaging the shock or draglink. I mean overall you won't get any more total flex from the 5" because they will compress to the same point meaning you will have to run the same length shock to avoid damaging it. So you will just be swapping an inch of compression for an inch of droop and what the hell is the point of that???</STRONG>
ive still got plenty of slack in the 14 inch shock for droop. a 5 inch spring would get me more compression because the shock will have an inch more of up travel as its mounted now and the drag link will be lower from the frame from the getgo...but like you said, its only an inch... <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0">

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: *mOuNtAiN gOaT* ]
 

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The wheel backspacing is sticking your wheels out a bit and when you turn they go right into the firewall. The best this to do for this is to relocate the fire wall with a hammer or cut and patch it. You can also turn your steering stops out a bit. A key is also the bumpstops, you want these to be about 2" before they touch. If you run with improper bumpstops the spring will compress too far and won't live long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
im not really worried about the firewall clearance, i can remedy that. i am flexing these springs slightly negative by the time the drag link hits. is that too far for longevity?? im getting the rears to do that too, just slightly negative when superstuffed...
 

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This is a common problem with SAS trucks and it's got nothing to do with the springs ,Its the shape of the IFS frame
 

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Here is a little trick that can help with the drag link touching the frame. You can take some tubing and cut it in 1/2, then cut a round notch in the frame. Insert the 1/2 tube into the frame and weld in place. Here is the result....

 

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I say bump stops or throw in an overload leaf. You want the droop but neg arch KILLS springs. Ask my three sets of stock IFS rears with 14inches of travel. about 3in neg arch. STOP NEG and you will be happy in the long run. CHEEP to
 

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Negative arch does not kill springs.

Negative arch on cheap steel springs or negative arch on highly
arched springs may kill springs, but using a blanket statement such
as yours is incorrect.

Had to say that......
Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Originally posted by ROKTOY:
<STRONG>Negative arch does not kill springs.

Negative arch on cheap steel springs or negative arch on highly
arched springs may kill springs, but using a blanket statement such
as yours is incorrect.

Had to say that......
Jay</STRONG>

well now that they are all settled in, my 4 inch allpros are sitting pretty flat??? are they kool with the negative arch??

how about this:

i keep the 4 inch settled in, awesome flex allpros, but ill use a 2-2.5 inch longer shackle to get the drag link another ~inch farther from the frame(lift) and the shock farther from its upper travel limit. will my steering be affected by that 2 degrees or so of caster that will add???

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: *mOuNtAiN gOaT* ]
 

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Originally posted by *mOuNtAiN gOaT*:
<STRONG>
well now that they are all settled in, my 4 inch allpros are sitting pretty flat??? are they kool with the negative arch??

how about this:

i keep the 4 inch settled in, awesome flex allpros, but ill use a 2-2.5 inch longer shackle to get the drag link another ~inch farther from the frame(lift) and the shock farther from its upper travel limit. will my steering be affected by that 2 degrees or so of caster that will add???

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: *mOuNtAiN gOaT* ]</STRONG>
I am in the same boat... MY allpros have flattened out alot as well. I need some shackles as well. Were are you going to get those shackles at? I think allpro only sells 1.5" over stock. Do you think 2 degree shims would be enough? Give me a yell if you find out the taller shackles that are well built.
THanks
Rick

<IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Originally posted by Rootbass:
<STRONG>I am in the same boat... MY allpros have flattened out alot as well. I need some shackles as well. Were are you going to get those shackles at? I think allpro only sells 1.5" over stock. Do you think 2 degree shims would be enough? Give me a yell if you find out the taller shackles that are well built.
THanks
Rick

<IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Unistrut couplers are either 6" long or 12" long.
They are used to join the U shaped channel called
unistrut which is used in commercial hanging and
supporting applications. It is the 10' long either
green or silver u shaped channel with all the oval
holes. We use it to hang lights, HVAC stuff, ductwork,
etc. at work. The couplers just let you bolt two
pieces together. Home Depot sometimes has them in the
electrical department if they carry unistrut. The 6"
couplers work perfectly for the double shackle. The
holes are right on and they are plenty thick.
Later,
Pat

i believe these are 6 inches eye2eye, which would be an inch longer than the allpros, id like something around 7, but i toasted all my drill bits making my last set of shackles...id prefer to not use the shims if i get no steering quirks and high speed wandering...
 

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Originally posted by Leonel:
<STRONG>This is a common problem with SAS trucks and it's got nothing to do with the springs ,Its the shape of the IFS frame</STRONG>
I was thinking about this the other day, and it may have caused me to change my mind for my shackle hanger method. I'd think it would be advantageous to use a shackle hanger under the frame, rather than the factory through the frame method, to gain clearance between the frame and your springs. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

It might not be a ton of difference, but would probably give you an added 1.5" or so...
 
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