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I realize that the act of route designation is hugely frightening and that our opponent is the environmental groups. I also realize that if the environmental went away there would be no one to help pay to maintain the gorgeous areas we all wheel in.
I was recently at a business meeting of a club I was planning to join and towards the end one member said that people should stop drinking Sierra Nevada beer, because they support the sierra club. My point in all this is that isn't it possible to reach a compromise with the environmental groups so that we can all stop wasting our time money and effort fighting those who keep our trails looking beautiful, or is it to late to work together.
 

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My point in all this is that isn't it possible to reach a compromise with the environmental groups so that we can all stop wasting our time money and effort fighting those who keep our trails looking beautiful, or is it to late to work together.

that's more of a question than a point. :D

Before my statement can be misconstrued - I am an environmentalist but I do like to think I keep my rationality about me, keeping me from being an extremist - and I do enjoy offroading.

Not to sound preachy or condescending but, no, you can't reach a compromise, at least not with them. The reason you can't reach a compromise is because to an extremist there is no middle ground, there is only their way. From religion to politics, this is the case. The Sierra club is a group of extremists who lament the day 4 wheel drive was ever discovered. As long as we're causing erosion (sorry, if you drive on a dirt hill you're eroding it), burning fossil fuel or disturbing nature we are going against the way of the Sierra Club - which is "Leave No Trace" or something equivalent. We have land set aside just for our recreation and they want to take it away, they will always want to. You do not compromise with the groups and extremists directly, you do it through the government.

Honestly, I would not want to do away with the Sierra club, though I hate them. They enforce a balance - albeit it doesn't always seem that way. They are a catalyst for progress, and they try to preserve our precious natural land. So, I will continue to donate to their cause via Sierra Nevada ale.:D
 

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The environmental groups and the gun-control groups share one thing besides most of their members; a deep sense of social superiority.
Most gun control nuts don't hate guns, they hate people who like guns. Likewise, most of them are not really concerned about some creek somewhere where they will most likely never go, but they really don't like the beer-swilling, truck driving redneck who goes there.
This is a big generalization, but if you spend any time listening to the environmentalists, you will hear a lot more negative stuff said about us, the ohv crowd than you will hear positive things about the land we love.
 

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I ask you to assess reality....Who are the extremist?

The OHV community doesn't want all the forest. We are willing to share it with everyone and have done so for years. We do want the opportunity to recreate as we have for generations, manage that recreation, and address any problems we generate. Sounds reasonable to me.

The greens...want us gone....out of 'their' forest entirely. And it is my opinion that the FS staffing has had a dramatic increase the number of greens employed as has many of government agencies. Just go here and see...http://www.peer.org/state/state_info.php?sid=ca I don't believe the FS represents the general publics view on how to manage the forest. And...this, in my opinion, gives them power to advance their agenda much faster then it otherwise would advance. Face it they are smart...they know how to get done what they want done. But, if they have to infiltrate the FS and other agencies to force their agenda on the Joe Public, what does that say?

I totally agree with the above which points out the "Moral Superiority" mentality of the greens. Nothing frustrates me more than a person that sits in their flatland house, never goes to the forest, and believes they know what is best for it. It just makes me want puke...or do other things.

I suggest the OHV community is willing to compromise because we have done nothing but that for the last 15 years... We are not, however, willing to go away.

Marlon
 

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My point in all this is that isn't it possible to reach a compromise with the environmental groups so that we can all stop wasting our time money and effort fighting those who keep our trails looking beautiful.....
How in the heck do you figure that the Sierra Club is keeping our trails looking beautiful? They're doing everything in their power to keep YOU off of our trails and keep all motorized users out of the forest completely! It's groups like Blue Ribbon Coalition, Friends of the Rubicon, Friends of Fordyce, Friends of ElDorado, Friends of High Lakes, etc that are working their butts off to keep OUR trails looking beautiful and open for us to enjoy. IMO, that's where we need to throw our support. Not to companies that contribute to and support the Sierra Club :mad3:
 

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f-ck sierra club. they want to keep ALL the forrest for their own BS agendas. We've been trying to compromise forever w/ these @$$bags. They won't play fair so we must fight fire w/ fire.

What small percentage of the world we're allowed to drive over they seem to want so badly for themselves it's rediculous. WE take care of the trails. There are plently of idiots that f-ck that up for us.... but we've been willing to do what is required to restore everything to it's proper status, however nobody in power wants to hear that.

The Enviro-extrimisto-lipwristo came shortly after man reached full masculinity and has been pulling gay rights into the damn wilderness for so damn long it's getting old. Keep it in the city... they have san franciso on lock down so just fly your damn rainbow capes down there and quit trying to build starbucks in survival country! Tis not required.
 

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The Sierra Club has 750,000 members. 75% of them join online, and 20% of their members do not renew from year to year. IMO they make it sound good to folks who don't understand their true agenda. That's how they gain groundswell support and $$$.

Don't think we're alone. We're just first on their list. Eventually they would like to see EVERYONE out of the woods...OHV's, then horseback riders, then bicyclists, and eventually even hikers.

There is no compromise to be made from their point of view.

I don't want to wheel in the wilderness, I don't think I should be able to. There is enough room for all of us...a place for them, a place for hikers, a place for horseback riders, a place for skiers, and a place for OHV's.

BUT THEY DON"T SEE IT THAT WAY AND ARE UNWILLING TO COMPROMISE...THEIR AGENDA IS NO COMPROMISE.
 
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