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Discussion Starter #1
Sure seems to me that it would be a simple conversion but does anyone know off hand if it is possible to convert an emulsion shock to a remote res unit?

I am looking at using my rockcrawler as a prerunner and I figure that the 16" travel emulsions in the front would do a lot better if I had a bit more cooling action on them..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
saw coilover
 

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I plan to do the same with my Fox 14" emulsions.

I had a brief conversation on the phone with someone at polyperformance who seemed to thing it was possible. But I didn't have the cash at that time.

I believe the o-ring fitting in the top cap is large enought to fit some of the hoses that fox uses. If not I plan to tap it to NPT and use a hydraulic live swivel.
 

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It's pretty easily done. See if the schrader threads directly to the top, or into a fitting that threads in. If it's the fitting....it'll be easy. If not, more than likely you'll want to drill/tap for a larger fitting, then add the res. and hose assembly. You may be able to get a replacement res. topcap for a decent price too.
 

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Sure seems to me that it would be a simple conversion but does anyone know off hand if it is possible to convert an emulsion shock to a remote res unit?

I am looking at using my rockcrawler as a prerunner and I figure that the 16" travel emulsions in the front would do a lot better if I had a bit more cooling action on them..
Interesting.

I know in the past that you thought it doesnt make that big of a difference between the two. Did I mis understand or did you change your mind?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Eric, In the past I was not trying to run 100+ miles as fast as I could (to see how fast it was possible to take a course). It was a max of 30 miles open (what I consider the max of an emulsion style shock) to any trail at the hammers. Could I do that with the Emulsion shocks? Ohh god yes. They performed as well as I wanted them to. I never expected them to handle long term abuse like a res would. For a rock crawler, I still do not believe that remote res are necessary.. Against your opinion (considering you dented a res and it behaved poorly, which apparenty seems to be the same as an emulsion shock).

What I want to do now is drive a course to see how it needs to be driven in a race.

I have not changed my mind. I have changed what I want my truck to do. It is up to you to see that.

You have never ran an emulsion shock. You do not know what your driving style would do to one. But you continue to bag on them..

I do know what mine would do over time. Rockcrawling they were fine.. But I would like to adjust the shocks that I have to better deal with the desert racing scene.

Easy enough?

Did you happen to notice the winner of the 2008 KOH was on air shocks (worse even than emulsions by most accounts)

Chris, we need to chat.. Do you suppose FOA can supply me with the necessary resevoirs?
The schrader valve threads directly into the top of the shock. But is not a big deal to open the holes up to a larger size..
 

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The older SAW reservoir shocks were drilled-n-tapped at 1/2 NPT in the top caps; the current ones are SAE-8.

If you don't mind buying new parts, just take the old top caps off, and put new ones on for the reservoir shocks. Or drill-n-tap yours out to the appropriate size. Pipe thread will be easier (no O-ring boss to surface/bore).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I basicaly have to pull them apart to drill and retapp anyway..

so it is a bit of a wash I guess.

I just need some resevoirs..
 

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Eric, In the past I was not trying to run 100+ miles as fast as I could (to see how fast it was possible to take a course). It was a max of 30 miles open (what I consider the max of an emulsion style shock) to any trail at the hammers. Could I do that with the Emulsion shocks? Ohh god yes. They performed as well as I wanted them to. I never expected them to handle long term abuse like a res would. For a rock crawler, I still do not believe that remote res are necessary.. Against your opinion (considering you dented a res and it behaved poorly, which apparenty seems to be the same as an emulsion shock).

What I want to do now is drive a course to see how it needs to be driven in a race.

I have not changed my mind. I have changed what I want my truck to do. It is up to you to see that.

You have never ran an emulsion shock. You do not know what your driving style would do to one. But you continue to bag on them..

I do know what mine would do over time. Rockcrawling they were fine.. But I would like to adjust the shocks that I have to better deal with the desert racing scene.

Easy enough?

Did you happen to notice the winner of the 2008 KOH was on air shocks (worse even than emulsions by most accounts)

Chris, we need to chat.. Do you suppose FOA can supply me with the necessary resevoirs?
The schrader valve threads directly into the top of the shock. But is not a big deal to open the holes up to a larger size..
Wow. I was just interested in your opinion. Didnt know you were so bitter about it. :flipoff2: I didnt mean to bag on emulsion shocks. I apologize. I did agree with you that my res that was damaged was not a good comparison.

I dont know much about emulsion shocks and thats why I asked. I wanted to see if you knew something I didnt and could teach me. I would like to have the knowledge if its really going to make a big enough differnce. I could have told you I was ignorant on the subject. Thanks for pointing it out for me though lol. :laughing:
 

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Chris, we need to chat.. Do you suppose FOA can supply me with the necessary resevoirs?
The schrader valve threads directly into the top of the shock. But is not a big deal to open the holes up to a larger size..
Sure, but we use a pretty good sized fitting. You may need to change that.
We probably have a handfull of used ones Mike would sell cheap. PM me about them.
 

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Sure seems to me that it would be a simple conversion but does anyone know off hand if it is possible to convert an emulsion shock to a remote res unit?

I am looking at using my rockcrawler as a prerunner and I figure that the 16" travel emulsions in the front would do a lot better if I had a bit more cooling action on them..
I dunno that reservoirs are going to add significant cooling. Better anti-foaming / aeration / cavitation and reduction of associated fade for sure, but I'm not convinced the cooling's going to be a whole lot better (unless the shock body is somehow shrouded and you plan to get the rez out in the airflow more??)

If you can get an IR temp before and after the conversion over the same terrain at same speed I'd love to know the results.
 

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Sure seems to me that it would be a simple conversion but does anyone know off hand if it is possible to convert an emulsion shock to a remote res unit?

I am looking at using my rockcrawler as a prerunner and I figure that the 16" travel emulsions in the front would do a lot better if I had a bit more cooling action on them..
Parts you need to get to convert a SAW 2.0"-16" travel emulsion shock to a reservoir shock:

(1) SAW-56200-102: RESERVOIR ASSEMBLY, 2.0" / 2.5" SHOCKS 12" RES, NO HOSE (REMOTE RES) = $132.00
(1) SAW-52300-100: HOSE ASSEMBLY 2.0" & 2.5" STRAIGHT (1/2 O-RING) = $30.80
(1) SAW-52010-200: TOP CAP, 2.0" REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK, O-RING 5/8" BEARING = $38.50
(1) SAW-52400-101: SEAL KIT, 2.0" REMOTE RESERVOIR (7/8" SHAFT) = $16.50

I added the seal kit because when you are doing all this shit it would be really convenient to replace all that stuff while you are in there. Also, you WILL ruin the top cap o-ring when removing the emulsion top cap (seal kit comes with a new one). They are assembled with Locktite and only come off with heat which fawks them up.

If you are looking for a less expensive way to get better performance out of your shock you can if you are willing to shorten the stroke 2". You can swap to a 14" shaft and get and Internal Floating Piston (IFP). Here is what you would need to do it.

(1) SAW-56060-014: SHAFT 7/8" x 14" TRAVEL, 2.0 / 2.5" SHOCKS (19.28" OAL) = $49.50
(1) SAW-52005-002: RESERVOIR PISTON, 2.0" SHOCKS (INTERNAL RESERVOIR) = $$4.40
(1) SAW-52400-101: SEAL KIT, 2.0" REMOTE RESERVOIR (7/8" SHAFT) = $16.50

I added the seal kit because when you are doing all this shit it would be really convenient to replace all that stuff while you are in there. Also, you WILL need to get a IFP o-ring and wear band which comes with the seal kit.

Let me know if you have anymore questions.
 

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I plan to do the same with my Fox 14" emulsions.

I had a brief conversation on the phone with someone at polyperformance who seemed to thing it was possible. But I didn't have the cash at that time.

I believe the o-ring fitting in the top cap is large enought to fit some of the hoses that fox uses. If not I plan to tap it to NPT and use a hydraulic live swivel.
If you have a 5/8" shock shaft your reservoir upgrade would be simple. Below I will list the parts needed for both 5/8" and 7/8" shock shaft applications.

5/8" Shaft Shock Reservoir Upgrade Parts List
(1) FOX-810-00-017-A: RESERVOIR ASSEMBLY: [Ø 2.0 X 11.00 TLG] -5 FITTING, NO HOSE = $70.00
(1) FOX-023-05-037-A: HOSE: -5, 7/16-20 O-RING BOSS X 7/16-20 O-RING BOSS, 12.00 TLG

7/8" Shaft Shock Reservoir Upgrade Parts List
(1) FOX-810-00-016-A: RESERVOIR ASSEMBLY: [Ø 2.0 X 11.00 TLG] -8 FITTING, NO HOSE = $70.00
(1) FOX-023-08-002-A: HOSE: -8, 9/16-18 O-RING BOSS X 9/16-18 O-RING BOSS, 14.00 TLG = $25.00
(1) FOX-206-06-004-B: BODY CAP: Ø 2.0 X 9/16-18 PORT (-8 HEIM) = $25.00
(1) FOX-029-03-130-A: SEALS: O-RING (-130) Ø2.0 BODY CAP = $1.00

If you want to just get a complete seal kit instead of just buying the top cap o-ring you will need
(1) FOX-803-00-015-A: KIT: REBUILD, Ø.875 SHAFT, REMOTE RESERVOIR, (Ø2.0 SERIES) = $10.00
 

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I dunno that reservoirs are going to add significant cooling. Better anti-foaming / aeration / cavitation and reduction of associated fade for sure, but I'm not convinced the cooling's going to be a whole lot better (unless the shock body is somehow shrouded and you plan to get the rez out in the airflow more??)

If you can get an IR temp before and after the conversion over the same terrain at same speed I'd love to know the results.
I'd tend to agree. The bennefit of even a little tiny resivoir is drastic. Look at a Bilstien 5150, the resi is barely big enough to add oil volume, but the performance gain is pretty significant. Emulsion shocks start to cavitate long before they overheat. Of course better resi placement or running commicly large resivoirs really does make a huge difference in cooling.

Fox class 11 shocks, there's WAY more oil volume in the resi than the shock, at that point they really do help cooling.
 

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I dunno that reservoirs are going to add significant cooling. Better anti-foaming / aeration / cavitation and reduction of associated fade for sure, but I'm not convinced the cooling's going to be a whole lot better (unless the shock body is somehow shrouded and you plan to get the rez out in the airflow more??)

If you can get an IR temp before and after the conversion over the same terrain at same speed I'd love to know the results.
My experience would suggest that you are way off on this Bill. We desert test with and without reservoirs. I stopped using resi's on our test truck because it took a significantly longer time to heat them up. At times, we can not achieve the desired peak temperature.

There are a myriad of reasons why emulsion shocks suck, make sure cooling is on the list.

Our truck has provisions for real world temperature monitoring from in the cab. We also use temp strips to monitor temps.

Time permitting this week I will build 2 identical shocks with and without reservoirs and run a fade test on the dyno.
 

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If you are looking for a less expensive way to get better performance out of your shock you can if you are willing to shorten the stroke 2". You can swap to a 14" shaft and get and Internal Floating Piston (IFP). Here is what you would need to do it.

(1) SAW-56060-014: SHAFT 7/8" x 14" TRAVEL, 2.0 / 2.5" SHOCKS (19.28" OAL) = $49.50
(1) SAW-52005-002: RESERVOIR PISTON, 2.0" SHOCKS (INTERNAL RESERVOIR) = $$4.40
(1) SAW-52400-101: SEAL KIT, 2.0" REMOTE RESERVOIR (7/8" SHAFT) = $16.50

I added the seal kit because when you are doing all this shit it would be really convenient to replace all that stuff while you are in there. Also, you WILL need to get a IFP o-ring and wear band which comes with the seal kit.

Let me know if you have anymore questions.
If you were to go this route how do you know where to set the IFP and how would you do it while getting the air out and knowing that the IFP stayed in its place?
 

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My experience would suggest that you are way off on this Bill. We desert test with and without reservoirs. I stopped using resi's on our test truck because it took a significantly longer time to heat them up. At times, we can not achieve the desired peak temperature.

There are a myriad of reasons why emulsion shocks suck, make sure cooling is on the list.

Our truck has provisions for real world temperature monitoring from in the cab. We also use temp strips to monitor temps.

Time permitting this week I will build 2 identical shocks with and without reservoirs and run a fade test on the dyno.
Frank,

Much appreciated. I'm always really interested in that fine (and wandering) line between theory and practice! :beer:

Good to know. So if the rezi's stay too cool and emulsion sucks you must be running an IFP in the main body, yes? Interesting.

Of course, in the front at least, you could always mount your rezi's too close to the exhaust manifolds like I do - that keeps 'em toasty! :flipoff2:
 

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Without highjacking the thread, is there a good/bad way to mount the reservoir? ie: Hose on top/bottom/flat? Does it make a difference?


Jason, are you prerunning with the water in the front tires? I would think this MAY be an area where you could get some improvement on the high-speed stuff... :D


Chris:cool2:
 

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Rolling Mod
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Frank,

Much appreciated. I'm always really interested in that fine (and wandering) line between theory and practice! :beer:

Good to know. So if the rezi's stay too cool and emulsion sucks you must be running an IFP in the main body, yes? Interesting.
Yes, everything I build has an ifp or divider piston (insert your name here). It flat out isn't worth it to run an emulsion hard. On the dyno they will lose 20-30% of the damping in short order due to foaming.

Years ago I was working on a sand rail that had fox 2.0's on the front. The owner asked me to build him some shocks and I did. He came back saying they didn't fade, the car performed so much better, felt more controlled....yada, yada, yada. All I did was shorten the travel and put in a divider piston. It makes that big a difference for going fast.

Now on another site there is currently a debate as to whether or not the size of the resi makes a significant difference, as you are primarily picking up nitrogen space. This intrigues me, and I see a test coming on.
More surface area means more heat transfer, but the same oil volume is in contact with the tube wall....I can go around and around in my head on this one.

For those looking to ad resi's to an existing shock, Complaine did it with some scrap shock parts to some fox's. Might want to ask for his opinions.
 
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