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Safety third!
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Cliffs of my rambling is designs aren't always they way they are because they are the "best", more likely they are that way do to cost, schedule and it will meet the design constraints.
I think a big thing people are forgetting here is that GM isn't known as the pinnacle of innovative design and forward thinking in the automotive industry, at all. It often works out well for us wheelers, but most everything they have done is a decade or more behind other OEMs. They do it because it's cheaper and easier.

With regard to load carrying at the hubs the 10.25 the Ford F-superduty D80 and everything else that used a bigger spindle than the traditional D60/70/Dodge hybrid 80/14b is gong to be your winner.

For load carrying strength in the middle;e the best axle is whichever one you add a truss to.

If you're looking to tow all that weight up a mountain fast then you want the gears with the most contact area and the biggest most widely spaced bearings holding them up. This is going to mean D80/11.5/S110, etc, etc. Unless you're doing hot-shot towing and putting on a fuckton of miles with a lot of power going through the axle the center isn't really a concern. Think of all the overloaded E-350s that go 20+yr with D60.

Whatever your application is I'm sure a trussed D70/14b/10.25/10.5 would probably hold up just fine.



These assumptions are mostly true but they tend to break down quite a bit over half a fucking century laughing::flipoff2:

I'm no 14b fanboy but nobody there is keeping it the way it is because they don't want to offend the guy who designed it with a slide rule. He's long gone. The only thing keeping it the way it is is inertia but you can already see that starting to wear off in the later iterations.

Realistically I think that they wanted the ultra-short pinion because the overall assembly was still cheaper than the HO series it was replacing and the removable support has some benefits.
I'd agree with this.

I'll add though the reason I won't touch a D70 over the other two unless it's free is the older metallurgy and design coupled with the hardest set up process. I don't want to use a case spreader and I hate that the shims are under the carrier bearings. The Ford axle sets up like a big ass 8.8. It has them on the outside. It's a time saver. Except without C clips, it saves even more time over an 8.8, which is already easy enough.



Off the shelf chrom-moly axles....

We are talking about the 37 spline pinion version... So 5.13 or 5.38 gears..

40 Spline parts

A spool

There is 3 for ya, right off the top of my head... :flipoff2:


The GM fans are quick to jump me on this, but how often do the damn things break under duress in pulling trucks, etc?

There's several articles out there talking about the quality of the axle shafts being on the high end of the spectrum. Argue all you want but it's pretty easy to look at the actual use of them and decide that they aren't needed, and they're not based on 50 year old metallurgy and design processes. Visteon is known for good shit.

Sure, they're not used as much in wheelers. It's due to a lot of "14 bolt is the absolute best" mantra being repeated over the last 20 years, the same way it has been for GM parts for years and years despite it not being gospel truth.

*Not hating on 14 bolts. They are a good axle. I just also think they are overrated and the new brand Y and Z stuff is comparable, if not a tad better. Not everyone wants to cut and clearance one. Sometimes a 10.5" is the easier to find option, and cheaper to boot. Selectable lockers are just as expensive for either one. The extra bearing support isn't a commonly utilized design anymore because it's flat out unnecessary if you design it correctly. 10.5s don't take hours extra to build like people are insisting.

I'd put them in the same category personally. I like the 10.5 because it's a very well machined axle and strong as hell in factory form. You don't need to upgrade them for most uses. For flat out cheap wheeling, weld up a 10.25/10.5 and go. They are working fine with big rubber and a lot of power for a lot of guys right here on this forum and gajillion lb ft diesel brodozers everywhere.
 

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In before K5 Jack comes in to say how the 14 bolts are all hand carved by Jesus himself with his Dad looking over his shoulder doing quality control .
:flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:
But I do feel honored........:smokin::smokin:

Off the shelf chrom-moly axles....

We are talking about the 37 spline pinion version... So 5.13 or 5.38 gears..

40 Spline parts

A spool

There is 3 for ya, right off the top of my head... :flipoff2:
I also have a 40 spline 14b ARB sitting here if anybody needs it...

Strongest to weakest

Axletech
Rockwells
Aftermarket 10"/9" = Aftermarket 14b
GM 10.5" 14bolt = Dana 80 = GM 11.5"
Ford 10.25/10.5 = Dana 70
Dana 60
GM 9.5" 14bolt
Ford 9"
Bla Bla Bla

And another :flipoff2::flipoff2: To Valley Rock
 

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Safety third!
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chromo would be nice and the only thing on your list that I would care about, 4.88s are close enough, 40 spline is all custom shit anyway so what prevents someone from 40 splining a 10.5? a spool looks simple enough to machine (and you could spline it for dana shafts) but why
Nobody does a spool because they own a welder. Nobody goes with 40 spline because they haven't broken the 37.
 

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Nobody does a spool because they own a welder. Nobody goes with 40 spline because they haven't broken the 37.
They have 35 spline axles not 37

If the reason they dont make a spool is because you have a welder then why do they make spools for 14 Bolt, D44, D60, 9", Toy 8" and such? Does your welder not work on those? :laughing:
 

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Safety third!
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They have 35 spline axles not 37

If the reason they dont make a spool is because you have a welder then why do they make spools for 14 Bolt, D44, D60, 9", Toy 8" and such? Does your welder not work on those? :laughing:
Google "37 spline 10.5". Go ahead.

I have never purchased a spool for anything, but you're missing that the carriers themselves are not strong enough on those little axles. A Sterling carrier is beefy as hell and isn't what's going to break.

That doesn't explain why they make them for the 14 bolt or 60, but some people want to ditch the weight and buy shiny parts I guess. For wheeling, it makes no sense to buy one imo unless you just don't have a carrier with that free axle you got.

"No market" is the easiest explanation. You can find numerous posts about guys just welding them up on here. And again, with the 14 bolt mantra, nobody has bothered to make them. Nobody would buy them unless every mofo out there was using them. Who runs a spool in a 14 bolt anyway? Maybe pullers? Not really common in the wheeling world.

The hot money is on a 10.5 with a factory E locker. It does everything you'd want and needs no upgrades but whatever gear ratio you want. If 4.30s will do, some trucks get that factory.
 

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GM 10.5" 14bolt = Dana 80 = GM 11.5"
The 14b is not on the same level as the 80 and 11.5. It's above or below the 10.5/10.25 depending on what you're doing and how you intend to build it. Both are superior to the D70.

Sure, they're not used as much in wheelers. It's due to a lot of "14 bolt is the absolute best" mantra being repeated over the last 20 years, the same way it has been for GM parts for years and years despite it not being gospel truth.
Speaking of which, the Chevy v8 is/was the worst of the GM v8s of the era and it was certainly no better than the Chrysler or Ford. The only reason it gained popularity was because it was more readily available for cheap than the others. Idiots stuffing it into everything lead to more aftermarket which lead to cheaper aftermarket.

"Which X is best" is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. If enough idiots delude themselves into thinking something is best it creates a business opportunity for the aftermarket to try and help make their dreams a reality.

In 10yr the JKU will be the go to wheeling platform because they'll be everywhere for cheap and the aftermarket already exists.
 

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Safety third!
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The 14b is not on the same level as the 80 and 11.5. It's above or below the 10.5/10.25 depending on what you're doing and how you intend to build it. Both are superior to the D70.



Speaking of which, the Chevy v8 is/was the worst of the GM v8s of the era and it was certainly no better than the Chrysler or Ford. The only reason it gained popularity was because it was more readily available for cheap than the others. Idiots stuffing it into everything lead to more aftermarket which lead to cheaper aftermarket.

"Which X is best" is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. If enough idiots delude themselves into thinking something is best it creates a business opportunity for the aftermarket to try and help make their dreams a reality.
Spot on. It's why aftermarket parts suppliers make the shit and magazines push for purchasing it. It's to make money on a narrative. If everything were good to go out of the box, there wouldn't be a need for an aftermarket, and they cannot make money when there is no need for an aftermarket.

Listening to the aftermarket to tell you what is the best factory part is going against their entire purpose for existing. Sales is entirely about creating a need.
 

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Google "37 spline 10.5". Go ahead.

I have never purchased a spool for anything, but you're missing that the carriers themselves are not strong enough on those little axles. A Sterling carrier is beefy as hell and isn't what's going to break.

That doesn't explain why they make them for the 14 bolt or 60, but some people want to ditch the weight and buy shiny parts I guess. For wheeling, it makes no sense to buy one imo unless you just don't have a carrier with that free axle you got.

"No market" is the easiest explanation. You can find numerous posts about guys just welding them up on here. And again, with the 14 bolt mantra, nobody has bothered to make them. Nobody would buy them unless every mofo out there was using them. Who runs a spool in a 14 bolt anyway? Maybe pullers? Not really common in the wheeling world.

The hot money is on a 10.5 with a factory E locker. It does everything you'd want and needs no upgrades but whatever gear ratio you want. If 4.30s will do, some trucks get that factory.
HAHA DUDE the 37 spline in the 10.5 is the PINION spine not the axle splines... I'm not just some axle rookie... I have done nothing but axles since the 1990s so nothing you are going to tell me when it comes to axles is going to be news to me.... :shaking:
 

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Safety third!
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HAHA DUDE the 37 spline in the 10.5 is the PINION spine not the axle splines... I'm not just some axle rookie... I have done nothing but axles since the 1990s so nothing you are going to tell me when it comes to axles is going to be news to me.... :shaking:
Everyone in the context of the discussion is calling the 11+ axle "the 37 spline" to differentiate it. We can call it "latest version of the 10.5" if you'd like? Nothing about what I said isn't untrue, even for the 05-11 axles, and even if you want to make this into a "gotcha" about where the splines in the colloquial name are.

It's also OK for you to believe one thing and for me to think something different. You're not going to convince me that they're worlds worse than a 14 bolt and nobody should build anything different. There's plenty of evidence out there to challenge what people have been saying about the 14 bolts for decades. Enough that several here are starting to realize it's not the end all, be all axle for this sport.

Are you going to address the meat of my post, or just dismiss it entirely over that?
 

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Everyone in the context of the discussion is calling the 11+ axle "the 37 spline" to differentiate it. We can call it "latest version of the 10.5" if you'd like? Nothing about what I said isn't untrue, even for the 05-11 axles, and even if you want to make this into a "gotcha" about where the splines in the colloquial name are.

It's also OK for you to believe one thing and for me to think something different. You're not going to convince me that they're worlds worse than a 14 bolt and nobody should build anything different. There's plenty of evidence out there to challenge what people have been saying about the 14 bolts for decades. Enough that several here are starting to realize it's not the end all, be all axle for this sport.

Are you going to address the meat of my post, or just dismiss it entirely over that?

You need to take a deep breath man.... I never said the 14 bolt was the end all be all of axles. I have always been baffled as to why the 10.5" axles has never got much love from the masses, they are are cheap to buy and very plentiful.
My earlier posts were merely pointing out how stupid it is to call the 14 bolt design "A band-aid fix" to a mistake. I would have pointed out the same stupidity if it were said about the 10.5". I have no issue with the 10.5 other than cost and availability of gears and the bolt pattern.

What about your rants am I not addressing to your satisfaction? You haven't said anything that I see, that is worth referencing.
 

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Wheeler
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:flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:
But I do feel honored........:smokin::smokin:



I also have a 40 spline 14b ARB sitting here if anybody needs it because I'm over this chebby junk .


Bla Bla Bla


And another :flipoff2::flipoff2: To Valley Rock

Fixered :flipoff2:


What took you so long :laughing:

You gonna be at the Hammers or are you already there ?
 

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If the reason they dont make a spool is because you have a welder then why do they make spools for 14 Bolt, D44, D60, 9", Toy 8" and such? Does your welder not work on those? :laughing:
you are the axle god so why dont you tell us why?

spicer itself makes a d44 spool, I find that curious https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/dana,2023397,full+spool,575 wow its cheaper then a yukon version
the d60 and ford 9" are drag racing axles so that is why they have a spool made for them and have had for decades before anyone made one for a 14ff
the toy axle must be used in some kind of racing as Mittler bros makes it and speedway sells them. in steel and aluminum!

I have seen more welded 14ff then spools but when china junk spools are $100 it become obvious why they sell (i have a china d60 spool on the shelf beside three d60 detroits )
 

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chromo would be nice and the only thing on your list that I would care about, 4.88s are close enough, 40 spline is all custom shit anyway so what prevents someone from 40 splining a 10.5? a spool looks simple enough to machine (and you could spline it for dana shafts) but why
I have no desire to run a spool or got to 40 spline axles, but he asked me to "Name one thing that's available for the 14 bolt that isn't for the 10.5" so I named 3 since he asked.

And now he doesn't like the fact that I was able to name 3

Why are Ford guys so damn sensitive... This is a total opinion thread, I don't love the 14 bolt to death... It has just proven itself to be a productive work horse for a LOT of people over the years an that is indisputable.
That said, yes there are many other killer axles in the game that are strong as shit and can and should be used more.
 

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Safety third!
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You need to take a deep breath man.... I never said the 14 bolt was the end all be all of axles. I have always been baffled as to why the 10.5" axles has never got much love from the masses, they are are cheap to buy and very plentiful.
My earlier posts were merely pointing out how stupid it is to call the 14 bolt design "A band-aid fix" to a mistake. I would have pointed out the same stupidity if it were said about the 10.5". I have no issue with the 10.5 other than cost and availability of gears and the bolt pattern.

What about your rants am I not addressing to your satisfaction? You haven't said anything that I see, that is worth referencing.
You're right, you didn't outright say that. It's more of a theme in this thread if anything. Likewise, I wasn't the guy who outright called the 14 bolt design a bandaid fix. I feel it was probably seen as important at one time and just ended up being easier to keep than redesign. That's not really bandaiding as much as it is not fixing what ain't broke, and what we possess the tooling for. GM is probably the most famous OEM for using the same designs for years and years on end with only minor variations because it saves money. Which i'll reinforce, means great for wheelers and hotrodders, but not necessarily what's truly "better".

As far as what I thought wasn't addressed: I was talking about the carrier strength and the purpose of aftermarket parts (namely spools) being needed, or realistically not needed at all. My point was, just because they offer aftermarket options, doesn't make the initial product better. You seemed to me to be voicing the opposite. If not, my bad.

Spools are damn pointless to me for most HD axles and I don't feel it points to "quality" when offered for a specific axle. If anything, I feel a slew of aftermarket options points to something actually needing those options, and subsequently why they are popular.

If you don't feel any of that is worthy of discussion after voicing it as a "pro" or "strength" for one axle and detrimental of another, ok.

I'm not mad. I do respect your input as a builder and someone with years of experience. But, I think there's a lot of room to disagree on the why's and how's of one axle being perceived as better or stronger than another, and the old school of reasoning why that is isn't gospel. If I had to guess, I'd say you're not building either one of the things often with "failure" as the reason for doing so.

Many here do not want to consider manufacturing methods or out of the box capability as a huge "pro" compared to availability of aftermarket options. Back in the 10.25 days, I'd have totally agreed on a 14b being better than a 10.25. In the last decade... not so much. In time, if it gains more popularity, which I think it will as people utilize SD axles more and more, I think we're going to see more upgrades for them that might not even be needed. What's in the junkyard the most is a pretty good indicator of what you're going to find numerous aftermarket parts for in 5-10 years.
 

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I have no desire to run a spool or got to 40 spline axles, but he asked me to "Name one thing that's available for the 14 bolt that isn't for the 10.5" so I named 3 since he asked.

And now he doesn't like the fact that I was able to name 3

Why are Ford guys so damn sensitive... This is a total opinion thread, I don't love the 14 bolt to death... It has just proven itself to be a productive work horse for a LOT of people over the years an that is indisputable.
That said, yes there are many other killer axles in the game that are strong as shit and can and should be used more.
a spool and 40 spline is available for any axle given deep enough pockets

so my interpretation is you got him on 1 thing, off the shelf chromos,
which needs to be addressed IMO and I think will be with the surge in 05+ d60s useage, smart money in the industry should jump on that. seeing as they are make jeep swap kits for these axles now the market is going to be there.
I dont think I have seen a broken 10.5 shaft tho so?
I have seen 1200hp dynojet runs on the stock 10.5 axle.


my recollection is that you have a metric shit ton of posts lauding the virtues of the boat anchor. this thread just had me thinking, 'again Mac?'. maybe I am wrong but with p4x4 search engine what it is these days I cant easily go back and look.
 

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you are the axle god so why dont you tell us why?

spicer itself makes a d44 spool, I find that curious https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/dana,2023397,full+spool,575 wow its cheaper then a yukon version
the d60 and ford 9" are drag racing axles so that is why they have a spool made for them and have had for decades before anyone made one for a 14ff
the toy axle must be used in some kind of racing as Mittler bros makes it and speedway sells them. in steel and aluminum!

I have seen more welded 14ff then spools but when china junk spools are $100 it become obvious why they sell (i have a china d60 spool on the shelf beside three d60 detroits )
It's super simple... Demand
 

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my recollection is that you have a metric shit ton of posts lauding the virtues of the boat anchor. this thread just had me thinking, 'again Mac?'. maybe I am wrong but with p4x4 search engine what it is these days I cant easily go back and look.
I'm pretty damn sure you are wrong about this, I cant recall have much if any conversation about the 14 bolt in the past.
 
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