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It's super simple... Demand
so like Dr says, the 14ff stuff was so flawed they needed the products to repair vast numbers of them? I agree with his sentiment 'like most chevy products'
or that marketing and parrot4x4 created the demand.

more likely china pricing dropped the cost low enough to be under what a replacement open carrier cost combined with parrot4x4.




it is far from simple. look how hard it has been to get aftermarket support for the best d60f that is available in vast numbers. still no chromos for the 05+ last I looked
 

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Safety third!
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so like Dr says, the 14ff stuff was so flawed they needed the products to repair vast numbers of them? I agree with his sentiment 'like most chevy products'
or that marketing and parrot4x4 created the demand.

more likely china pricing dropped the cost low enough to be under what a replacement open carrier cost combined with parrot4x4.




it is far from simple. look how hard it has been to get aftermarket support for the best d60f that is available in vast numbers. still no chromos for the 05+ last I looked
I wouldn't say "so flawed", but wheelers were certainly breaking them with great enough numbers that someone was able to capitalize.


In the spirit of the lack of aftermarket for the Super 60s, I'm wondering WTF nobody has been able to offer deeper reduction gearsets for 203s again? It doesn't seem like they would be in the realm of an ecobox plus a $100 donor 241 and a lot of people already have them.
 

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As far as what I thought wasn't addressed: I was talking about the carrier strength and the purpose of aftermarket parts (namely spools) being needed, or realistically not needed at all. My point was, just because they offer aftermarket options, doesn't make the initial product better. You seemed to me to be voicing the opposite. If not, my bad.
I Agree 100% that the 10.5 Ford is built like a tank and probable had the strongest open carrier of any light duty axle. I wasn't challenging any of your points otherer than the "Name one thing" part :flipoff2:

Spools are damn pointless to me for most HD axles and I don't feel it points to "quality" when offered for a specific axle. If anything, I feel a slew of aftermarket options points to something actually needing those options, and subsequently why they are popular.
I agree with you here as well.... A spool has it's place just not in anything I own.. lol I was just pointing out it's non-existence for the 10.5"

Many here do not want to consider manufacturing methods or out of the box capability as a huge "pro" compared to availability of aftermarket options. Back in the 10.25 days, I'd have totally agreed on a 14b being better than a 10.25. In the last decade... not so much. In time, if it gains more popularity, which I think it will as people utilize SD axles more and more, I think we're going to see more upgrades for them that might not even be needed. What's in the junkyard the most is a pretty good indicator of what you're going to find numerous aftermarket parts for in 5-10 years.
Agreed here too!
 

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so like Dr says, the 14ff stuff was so flawed they needed the products to repair vast numbers of them? I agree with his sentiment 'like most chevy products'
or that marketing and parrot4x4 created the demand.

more likely china pricing dropped the cost low enough to be under what a replacement open carrier cost combined with parrot4x4.




it is far from simple. look how hard it has been to get aftermarket support for the best d60f that is available in vast numbers. still no chromos for the 05+ last I looked
FYI most of the worlds spools are made in India not China, as China hasn't bothered with them as far as I have seen as of yet.

And when we released the first 14 bolt full spools in 2003 it was purely due to the demand we were getting from customers. And at that time We had plenty of open carriers in stock for fairly cheap AND there was already a mini spool available and we were still able to sell more then we could produce at the time.

What really sucks about the 14 Bolt is the size of the body of the carrier because of the 3rd bearing. This is why it took so long for ARB to come out and why no one else has released a selectable either. Whereas the 10.5 case is huge and will let you do whatever you want so that's a bonus. I'm curious to see how the factory electric locker holds up, I haven't had one in my hands yet to see how they are made but it's a cool option if you can find it.

If you think Ford has done so well with it's drivetrain choices lets talk Dana 50 or the TTB Front or the 6.0L ..... You see every manufacturer has made its share of mis-steps... it's not just a GM thing
 

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If you think Ford has done so well with it's drivetrain choices lets talk Dana 50 or the TTB Front or the 6.0L ..... You see every manufacturer has made its share of mis-steps... it's not just a GM thing
The D50 was a perfectly fine axle for the applications it was put in. It's just not a D60 so it's obviously mostly useless to us.

The TTB is awesome. It's a nice middle ground of handling/simplicity/strength between a solid axle and full blown A-arm IFS. Obviously it's not the tool for every job but if you know how to weld and aren't so dumb that you can't figure out the geometry it's a great suspension for all the off road stuff you don't want a solid axle for but can't justify a custom built A-arm IFS for.

The 6.0 is just shit though.

You know the General's cock is down your throat when you list three things some other OEM fucked up and one of them isn't even a fuckup and one of them is a success. :flipoff2:
 

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The D50 was a perfectly fine axle for the applications it was put in. It's just not a D60 so it's obviously mostly useless to us.

The TTB is awesome. It's a nice middle ground of handling/simplicity/strength between a solid axle and full blown A-arm IFS. Obviously it's not the tool for every job but if you know how to weld and aren't so dumb that you can't figure out the geometry it's a great suspension for all the off road stuff you don't want a solid axle for but can't justify a custom built A-arm IFS for.

The 6.0 is just shit though.

You know the General's cock is down your throat when you list three things some other OEM fucked up and one of them isn't even a fuckup and one of them is a success. :flipoff2:

LOL! :flipoff2:

If the D50 was such a success then why was it only used for 4 years as a solid axle?

IMO the only thing the TTB was good for is tire sales..... LOL
 

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LOL! :flipoff2:

If the D50 was such a success then why was it only used for 4 years as a solid axle?
Because pickups were and are a highly competitive market. Ford needed to increase power and GVWR to keep up with competition and the D50 couldn't stand up to that. It was obsolete. It was fine in its day but as the power and weight kept increasing it needed to go. They massively upgraded the D60 at and drive-lines at the same time as well.

IMO the only thing the TTB was good for is tire sales..... LOL
It's a great off road IFS that actually can net decent travel without massive amounts of fabrication and packages really well. In a buggy where you can build around the suspension A-arms are great. In a full bodied rig the TTB is pretty nice.

If beam axles sucked that bad then why did the 2wd E and F series keep using them?
 

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It's a great off road IFS that actually can net decent travel without massive amounts of fabrication and packages really well. In a buggy where you can build around the suspension A-arms are great. In a full bodied rig the TTB is pretty nice.

If beam axles sucked that bad then why did the 2wd E and F series keep using them?
I was being funny :rolleyes:

But like the D50 it was great in it's day...
 

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i have actually order direct from india for shafts a spool and tools. shipping was cheaper then getting yukon stuff from WA state somehow. got my carrier bearing tools set.
 

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i have actually order direct from india for shafts a spool and tools. shipping was cheaper then getting yukon stuff from WA state somehow. got my carrier bearing tools set.
Ya, it's nuts that Durasolid can do that... I asked my FedEx Rep about it, because I ordered something to see what their shipping was all about, and I got a 38lb axle baring puller shipped to me from India for $33 shipping via FedEx. My Rep claims that the Indian Government is subsidizing the shipping into the US. What a crock of shit right! How doe you compete with that shit?!
 

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I was being funny :rolleyes:

But like the D50 it was great in it's day...
Oh, I'm sure it was great at saving a few bucks per vehicle. :laughing:

A nice shining example: a buddy of mine's dad worked for GM back in the 70s. He was telling us about how the invention of the side post battery saved something like 38 cents of lead per battery since they don't need as much lead to make the terminals poke out the top. That adds up fast when every car you sell gets one.

I think in the realm of axles, the performance and load carrying ability is so much closer between 3/4 and 1 tons that it made sense to just throw the heavier beam axle under the front of all of them and eat the cost. Of course, at astronomical new truck prices... I'm betting they can swing it without breaking a sweat. I don't mind, I'm not buying these vehicles new, and it's a total win for wheelers. :smokin:


Ya, it's nuts that Durasolid can do that... I asked my FedEx Rep about it, because I ordered something to see what their shipping was all about, and I got a 38lb axle baring puller shipped to me from India for $33 shipping via FedEx. My Rep claims that the Indian Government is subsidizing the shipping into the US. What a crock of shit right! How doe you compete with that shit?!
Interesting. It explains why the few things I have received from India were just as cheap as getting them from Oklahoma. And damn fast too.
 

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"Name one thing that's available for the 14 bolt that isn't for the 10.5" so I named 3 since he asked.

And now he doesn't like the fact that I was able to name 3
Don't give yourself so much credit, I don't mind getting proven wrong, this was the soonest I could return to the thread because I work all day. No spool and low ratio availability I'll give you. I bet I could source 40 spline stuff for one in short order if I had the need though. But you're right, "off the shelf" doesn't exist.

BTW do you know what you have to do to a 14B to run 40 spline axles? They don't just fit, and what spindle you have left when bored out to fit 40 spline is pathetic. 14B spindles suck to begin with, making them thinner isn't doing them any favors. I have 14B outers on a custom 9" I built, biggest mistake in aftermarket components I think I've ever made. Went with brand new spindles hubs drive flanges and double spine axle shafts because of all the raving the 14B fanboi's do. Now I know there isn't a single piece of a 14B that I'd use for any reason ever.
 

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The Monobeam 50 was never great in it's day nor now .

I have yet to figure out why it exists . Seriously .

The ONLY benefit of a 50 is no carrier break, but who the fawk would put tractor gears on a 50 ? In a toyota okay, something with low power ? Sure...


Tell me it was cost savings and I'll tell you that the extra design/engineering/casting/machine work needed to create the MB50 more than negates the savings .
 

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Have you ever had your hands on 404s? They are actually pretty beefy. Some compare stock ones to mildly built 1 tons. That being said, I hate the design of them, but they aren't exactly weak.
Agree.
Mogs 404 are far stronger than a OEM 14 bolt. They have their weaknesses, such as drum brakes, weird bolt pattern, torque tubes, really heavy, and whatnot, but, the inner axles are strong enough to handle giant (and heavy) tires due to the gear reduction at the axle ends, and the outer axles (after the gear reduction) are plenty beef. Great ground clearance is nice added touch. But they're certainly not for most folks.
The paper-thin cast iron portal boxes negate any other strength advantage the 404 could questionably boast.
 

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Putting the 44 ahead of the 8.8 is false and stupid. It's something a Jeep driving cock gobbler with a 44 would say to feel good about themselves.

The 8.8 carrier has much more beef and the pinion offset is greater making for stronger gears.

As a complete assembly a 44 is about the same as the 28spl 8.8 (why anyone would run one of those is beyond me) in terms of strength (the 8.8 still has a better ring/pinion and carrier though). Compared to the 31spl 8.8 it's not even close. I'd rate the D50 about the same as the 8.8 in the shafts and carrier department but the 8.8 still wins in the ring gear department. Even the JK44 isn't as beefy as a 31spl 8.8.
The 8.8 gears and carrier maybe stronger, but the housing tubes are paper thin and the design of the wheel bearings are completely stupid. I hate to be a hater because I own a Bronco with a 8.8. (I installed a truss and ful-float kit to solve the problems)

I had 35's on a Scout on Dana 44s. Zero problems. Not so on the Bronco.
 

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Ya, it's nuts that Durasolid can do that... I asked my FedEx Rep about it, because I ordered something to see what their shipping was all about, and I got a 38lb axle baring puller shipped to me from India for $33 shipping via FedEx. My Rep claims that the Indian Government is subsidizing the shipping into the US. What a crock of shit right! How doe you compete with that shit?!
mine came DHL

I tried to find details of the subsidy
hmm this will piss you off more then
https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-usps-epacket-gives-postal-subsidies-to-chinese-e-commerce-merchants-to-ship-to-the-usa-cheap/#117b9e3d40ca
 

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The paper-thin cast iron portal boxes negate any other strength advantage the 404 could questionably boast.
I know that is a weak point, but I still don't think they are weak. My buddy and I put a set under a V8 CJ with 49s. He mostly wheels in the snow, but still isn't easy on it. The only one time he has broken a portal was when he borrowed some 54s on 1" backspaced 20x14 wheels and let someone else drive it.

Like I said, I know they aren't bulletproof, but definitely not "just above a D44"
 

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wow, I never thought I would see the day, that people would say Gm sucks and the 14 bolt sucks because it was used for so long and has aftermarket support......that like saying LS engines suck because they can be swapped into anything and had lots of support.......
 

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wow, I never thought I would see the day, that people would say Gm sucks and the 14 bolt sucks because it was used for so long and has aftermarket support......that like saying LS engines suck because they can be swapped into anything and had lots of support.......
ford guys have been saying that for decades
 

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wow, I never thought I would see the day, that people would say Gm sucks and the 14 bolt sucks because it was used for so long and has aftermarket support......that like saying LS engines suck because they can be swapped into anything and had lots of support.......
I do say that, all of that. Those things have the support, that is the only good thing about them.
 
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