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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Title kind of states what I'm looking for but to expand:

I'm building up a front Dana 60 for a project that will see significant street usage as well as trail usage. (~200 miles to get to a good trail and I don't own/want a tow rig/trailer)

I've got the 35 spline outer shafts and I'm going with Poly Performance drive flanges(They seem to be slightly better than the Warn ones... plus I don't want to have a big W on my rig :p).

The question is will the CTMs have an issue with sustained 70mph speeds?

Using a manual hub is NOT an option I am considering.
 

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I drove home from Hollister to Sacramento in front wheel drive with mine... No problem. Would I do it all the time? I don't know about that. Why don't you call Jack @ CTM?

Jack
 

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From what I have read (and through the grapevine), the CTM's are not rated for prolonged continuous use. Without proper lubrication, the bushing will have issues with wear (leading to accelerated wear from the shaving and then increased slop in the bearing caps). If you do try it, keep them greased up the best you can.
 

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I think you'll have major wear problems. Total FWIW of course.

Why not hubs?

-J
 

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Lil John,

You should reconsider this stance. I have a KICK ASS High Angle shaft in the front of my rig and even though Jess makes the best shaft ont he market, he cannot help the fact that I whack the crap out of it often on big freaking rocks.

I have bent (only slightly) the last 2 shafts he built for me....just enough to make it VERY annoying to go at speed with my hubs locked in.

Also, I have been whacking the HELL out of my 35 spline stuff and have not broken a Ujoint yet. Not saying i won't do it next time I am out, but if you are not doing a bunch of high RPM front digs like they do in comps, or running heavy ass 44" tires, I seriously doubt you will need CTMs.

Just some stuff to consider, I would love to have those kick ass Pirate drive flanges as well, but I too like to take mine out on the street from time to time and I don't think I could do it without unlocking the hubs.
 

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My guess is that the CTM's would only last about a month before they are in need of a rebuild. My dana 44 joints wear out every couple months, and that is on a rig that is wheeled every weekend and not driven other than that. I greased them once a week too. Oh, and the rebuild kits are not cheap at all.
 

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How are you wearing them out so fast? There are guys that have been running them for years without a rebuild:confused:
 

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[ I don't want to have a big W on my rig :p).


Using a manual hub is NOT an option I am considering. [/B][/QUOTE]




I all ways thought it was an M not a W :flipoff2:


I would just put hubs on it, its better for fuel mileage:D
 

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ok im not an expert here, but for normal driving, not on the trail... how hard would it be to slap in some regular warn type hubs? THEN when you get there install the plugs ? Seems like 10min of work woudl be the simple solution, and cover ya on both.... hell your pals with trailers will take at least that long to unload... just my .02... -yag
 

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When you are going straight ahead there will be almost no wear on them at all no matter how fast you are driving.
 

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Lill John,

This is what I'm going to do. I'm going with drive flanges for offroad. I also have the chrome capes (spicer) that I'll use for street. I'll take out the slugs and put the chrome cap on. BTW, I'm going with PIG's drive flanges too.

Charles
 

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desertCJ said:
How are you wearing them out so fast? There are guys that have been running them for years without a rebuild:confused:
Because he is not exagerating the amount he wheels like most people on the internet do. He wheels the snot out of his rig. In a month he probably wheels 8-10 times, thats as much as a lot of people do in a year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ROCK HUGGER said:
I would just put hubs on it, its better for fuel mileage:D
Locked or unlocked won't make of a difference in gas mileage for me :) My rig has the aerodynamics of a brick :D If I get the 14mpg I used to get I'll be more than happy :p

xBabyJesus said:
Why not hubs?
There are a couple reasons for no hubs. First, I haven't heard the most stellar reports about the durability or functionality of Warn hubs. Second, after having driven my DD rig with no hubs and using 4 wheel high quite a bit, I LIKE the added traction on road at times :p The only thing hubs sort of have going for them over drive flanges is they are $20+ cheaper :(

fj40charles said:
Lill John,

This is what I'm going to do. I'm going with drive flanges for offroad. I also have the chrome capes (spicer) that I'll use for street. I'll take out the slugs and put the chrome cap on. BTW, I'm going with PIG's drive flanges too.
That is an intersting option.

Nolen,
My driving style allowed me to not kill a birfield even with a V8 and SM465 :p I'm not sure even with my new drivetrain whether I'd kill a standard D60 ujoint. But my current drivetrain is a bit unforgiving.... I'd estimate 500ft/lbs from the engine... plus an estimated 100 to 1 gear reduction :p I'm also looking at tires in the 38-42 inch range... still up in the air on it until I get the body related stuff finalized:p

By all the feedback, it sounds like I might be better served by the spicer life series ujoints. Anyone comment on these style ujoints?
 

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Lil'John said:


Locked or unlocked won't make of a difference in gas mileage for me :) My rig has the aerodynamics of a brick :D If I get the 14mpg I used to get I'll be more than happy :p


There are a couple reasons for no hubs. First, I haven't heard the most stellar reports about the durability or functionality of Warn hubs. Second, after having driven my DD rig with no hubs and using 4 wheel high quite a bit, I LIKE the added traction on road at times :p The only thing hubs sort of have going for them over drive flanges is they are $20+ cheaper :(



That is an intersting option.

Nolen,
My driving style allowed me to not kill a birfield even with a V8 and SM465 :p I'm not sure even with my new drivetrain whether I'd kill a standard D60 ujoint. But my current drivetrain is a bit unforgiving.... I'd estimate 500ft/lbs from the engine... plus an estimated 100 to 1 gear reduction :p I'm also looking at tires in the 38-42 inch range... still up in the air on it until I get the body related stuff finalized:p

By all the feedback, it sounds like I might be better served by the spicer life series ujoints. Anyone comment on these style ujoints?
Check clips before and after each run they like to magically dissapear... or go full circle other than that they are holding up fine to my comparibly smaller 6cyl 38"s and a HEAVY FOOT!
 

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Lil John,

My opinions are:

Spicer life series and CTMs are both great products but built for very different purposes. Spicer are specifically designed for longevity/durability under reasonable loads. They spend huge $$ designing them for this. Remember - their prime focus s fleet operators who run bazillions of miles and hate maintenance.

CTM's are built with one purpose in mind - maximum one-time overload brute strength. Thay are meant to take the largest possible force while off-road when no other compromise will do.

Shaft matching is important too - if you;re usinf Spicer shaft's the CTM's are not recommended. Coversely, if using aftermarket high quality chrome moly axles, CTM's are preferred.

On the hubs - my Poly flanges take all of 3 mins to remove / replace. Only trouble is, with the Poly style cap attaching directly to the flange (and not another "disc" like the Warn) there's no easy way to put the cap back on, leaving the hub exposed.

Perhaps we can get PIG to make some retainer plates like the Warn have. For leave in all the time use, i prefer the less parts approach of the Ply - but if you're going to R&R them a bunch this is a consideration.

Of course, if you want traction on-road (FWD) of course this isn;t an option.
 

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BillaVista said:


On the hubs - my Poly flanges take all of 3 mins to remove / replace. Only trouble is, with the Poly style cap attaching directly to the flange (and not another "disc" like the Warn) there's no easy way to put the cap back on, leaving the hub exposed.

Perhaps we can get PIG to make some retainer plates like the Warn have.
How about just a blank cover when the Poly Flanges are out
 

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Man, there is so much info in this thread that I disagree with from experience.

If you could not break a birf with a V8, you will not break a standard life series joint with 35-spline shafts. I run liife series joints in my 60. I had breakage problems before I welded my caps in. Those damn clips would fly out quickly and it wouldn't take long for a cap to walk out.

Since I have welded them in, I haven't broken a single joint. I have a healthy 355 (Probably around 400 torque), 44" tires, and 2 t-cases for a final ratio of 150ish-1. I try not to hammer it in low-low-low unless I have to. When I am just using my 3:1 Atlas case, I am at ~78:1 and I don't think I could break a shaft if I tried. I have fricking hammered it into trees (on accident), rocks, spots where the tire will wedge and wrinkle, you name it. Many fo those times I have been stupid and just kept my foot on the gas regardless. Yet, since I welded the caps in, no breakage. And the kicker of it all: I use Warn hubs and haven't broken those yet either. Even when I broke a joint, which inevitably takes both shafts with it, the Warn hubs didn't bust. I'm also welded in the front, so there is NO room to play.

CTM's are awesome. But if you couldn't break a birf, you won't break a 60. Besides, there's no point in going CTM's unless you have alloy shafts. You're talking huge gobs of money then.

If I were you, I'd run the spicer joints and shafts, weld the caps in, and either run hubs or slugs and remove them on the road. Because once you bend the front shaft slightly, 60mph is no fun.

J. J.
 

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Patooyee- I don't know for sure what lil'john was runnin before but I believe it was a 2f (weak 6cyl.) and has bumped up to a 472 Caddy big block. I understand his desire to build it not to break the first time around and don't think not breaking birfs with a 6cyl is a good indicator of what a big block caddy will do to a 60. I do agree that his best route for what he wants to do is the matching spicer stuff and that he will be hard pressed to bust it up. did you find a way to keep your site up? I hope so, I have checked it out a couple times and refered folks to it for 'pane info.

lil' Jon- I have been following your build through the questions you have posted, when are you gonna share pics? I'm doin' a 500 inch BB fj as well but your way ahead of me.
 
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