Pirate 4x4 banner

221 - 233 of 233 Posts

·
Vertical Limits
Joined
·
5,037 Posts
Mark was able to get sendcutsend.com to sponsor my instruction with coupons of material!

I have a lot of questions for them both.
Totally off base, I have a plasma table and have cut lots of alum panels that become tanks. A buddy was putting 40ish psi to one of the air chambers and it broke right on the weld seam. Right down the middle. Same as a hydro tank I made, both with 4xxx filler when welded. With some research, I have seen where it says non shielded plasma cuts with air can oxidize the HAZ of the cut and have to be manually removed, which can go pretty far back. Another article I read said that mainly applied to 2's, 6's and 7's, and not as much of a deal on 1's, 3's and 5's. Just curious if you just clean dross to a clean edge on plasma cut alum or if you remove another 1/16 or more to get past the HAZ. I have only encountered this in the last year or so, and just said screw it and cut the last couple tanks with a saw and formed/welded from there. On other stuff not pressured, I still just cut/clean/weld.
Your remark about sendcutsend made me think about this.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,939 Posts
Discussion Starter #222
Followed along via Instagram Matt, looks like you had a productive weekend and all parties enjoyed themselves!

Thanks Joey!

If there was ONE thing you learned from your weekend trip that might help the rest of us hacks would you be willing to share?
three main tips, one for steel, aluminum, and both.

-steel- if your pedal pulsing; its not a full stroke of the pedal, only back off about 15%.

-aluminum- no gas lense! regular collet and nothing bigger than a 5 cup. Gas lens is for reactive metals... AL doesn't need as much gas.

-both- ride the puddle... arc length is more important than I ever imagined... meaning to dance right on the puddle enough to hear a sound difference...

Totally off base, I have a plasma table and have cut lots of alum panels that become tanks. A buddy was putting 40ish psi to one of the air chambers and it broke right on the weld seam. Right down the middle. Same as a hydro tank I made, both with 4xxx filler when welded. With some research, I have seen where it says non shielded plasma cuts with air can oxidize the HAZ of the cut and have to be manually removed, which can go pretty far back. Another article I read said that mainly applied to 2's, 6's and 7's, and not as much of a deal on 1's, 3's and 5's. Just curious if you just clean dross to a clean edge on plasma cut alum or if you remove another 1/16 or more to get past the HAZ. I have only encountered this in the last year or so, and just said screw it and cut the last couple tanks with a saw and formed/welded from there. On other stuff not pressured, I still just cut/clean/weld.
Your remark about sendcutsend made me think about this.
I have been cutting on plasma with water and plasma quench. It does dirty up the material something awful, and do not leave a sheet on the table overnight, it will turn the back of the sheet black and only mechanical removal will clean it up. I have been successful with a good acetone cleaning (last of course), and taking an aluminum flap wheel and a dedicated file to the cut edge to prep for tig welding. Occasionally i have overcut and trimmed on a band saw, and actually prefer it. The laser cut coupons required nothing more than a wipedown with acetone!

something I learned this weekend... throw away the 4000 series filler unless its getting anodized. 5356 is over 50% stronger in sheer strength longitudinally and across, that's why its referred to as hard wire. Also, be careful with non-woven abrasives and flapwheels, they will smear the natural oxide layer on the surface into the weld area and cause severe peppering and inadequate penetration. DA sanding is a better treament, be sure to cut through.

A crack down the middle of the weld is typically due to poor pen and/or contamination.

But frankly, with 40 psi, I would imagine any AL tank of square welded corners would fail. Best study I could find to properly test a fuel tank ( and it was an aircraft builder), was a leakdown test over 24 hours, with surgical glove on the fill neck with rubber bands, and a gauge. inflate enough to fully inflate the glove ( not as much as howie mandel back in the 80's); they then measured the height of the glove and double checked the gauge and height after 24 hrs. Of course it was soapy water tested previously for major leaks.

Good to hear from ya Kelly, it's been a minute.
 

·
Vertical Limits
Joined
·
5,037 Posts
Same. It was an intake plenum, 1/8" 6061, plasma cut, cleaned with file past dross to clean metal, acetone, first welded with 4043, after crack remade with 5356 filler, currently holding. Now remaking the turbo kit with a single TB instead of 3 and using a different cast plenum. OT by a long ways, but here is an idea of what all we were playing with for him to make it hold incredible amounts of boost and hold it.

The tank was 14 ga, large and flat for hydraulic oil. There was a lot of pressure on a wide flat side from gravity and bouncing down the road on a dump truck. I was worried about it from the beginning but they insisted on light alum and the size it was. After the cracks we went back with a cap on all 4 corners running 5/8" around the corner each way (3003 I broke) and welded down. After those experiences, we found the post about oxidation of the cut joint when cutting with plasma on air not nitro. Curious if you'd heard anything of the like.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,939 Posts
Discussion Starter #224
Same. It was an intake plenum, 1/8" 6061, plasma cut, cleaned with file past dross to clean metal, acetone, first welded with 4043, after crack remade with 5356 filler, currently holding. Now remaking the turbo kit with a single TB instead of 3 and using a different cast plenum. OT by a long ways, but here is an idea of what all we were playing with for him to make it hold incredible amounts of boost and hold it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BJewwycdyY&list=UUO76-Hgri4KlFh1NlVb40gg

The tank was 14 ga, large and flat for hydraulic oil. There was a lot of pressure on a wide flat side from gravity and bouncing down the road on a dump truck. I was worried about it from the beginning but they insisted on light alum and the size it was. After the cracks we went back with a cap on all 4 corners running 5/8" around the corner each way (3003 I broke) and welded down. After those experiences, we found the post about oxidation of the cut joint when cutting with plasma on air not nitro. Curious if you'd heard anything of the like.
I have read something of that nature. I believe it was in 'the fabricator', online magazine I subscribe to after attending fabtech in 2018. Lots of great articles and info there. No personal failures to date.

And for that reason and the problems that you incurred, I will be purchasing a CNC router, and/or I'll soon be adding onto the shop with a dirty room, and I intend to expand my table to 5x10, and I'll also have a drain/ fill system to cut aluminum dry. I know a couple guys that cut dry, file, acetone, weld aluminum. Winchester use to have a cheap router table that he would clean the edge with as well, as an alternative.
https://shop.carbide3d.com/products/shapeoko3?variant=14064088580157

Lots of instances of folks doing serious milling with these. Just search the hashtag for shapeoko on IG. Weld straight off the table with acetone wipe. Nice size working envelope on the xxl.

After my training this weekend, I intend to use only 5356 filler from now on. I'm aware of the temperature range recommendation advised between the two different fillers (iirc about 180° sustained for 5356) but so many guys build oil tanks, intakes, valve covers, and oil pans without incidents with 5356. Which was the sole reason I had been using 4043 filler. I'll still use 3000 series for most work, due to workability. I'll also be upping the gauge I use for fuel cells and such.

Matt

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,939 Posts
Discussion Starter #226
This is a white paper I found when another member was looking at building a square potable water tank. It was for a nuke plant so take it with a grain of salt...
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/6667698/
That is very interesting. It would take me a month or more to scale out down to our dimensions lol. .750 316 ss sides and 1.0" top... dammmnn. Thanks for rattling my brain.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
That is very interesting. It would take me a month or more to scale out down to our dimensions lol. .750 316 ss sides and 1.0" top... dammmnn. Thanks for rattling my brain.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Knowledge is power :D

Side note: I follow you on Instagram for awhile, had no idea this was you until a few months ago...:homer:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,939 Posts
Discussion Starter #228
Had a great experience with my personalized tig training with Winchester Metal Works and Lattin Precision.

My Instagram post cuz I'm too lazy to type it again...









Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,939 Posts
Discussion Starter #229
Also got my new welder and cart in last week.

Everlast 325ext and cooler, with a ZTFab cast from all-a-cart.com



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,939 Posts
Discussion Starter #230
Modified my old diversion cart for the 250ex and cooler. The 325 will stay at the table while the 250 will be used around the cars. My old cart was just so damn big; btw its for sale if anyone is in need.


Previous version of cart




Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,407 Posts
.



















Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
hey, these are the pictures I was looking for :smokin:

thanks again for posting! I've been trying various ideas in my head for a seat mount
 
221 - 233 of 233 Posts
Top