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SO what do you guys think are the best for overall strength?
Dednebear
Rock Equipment
Welderbill't
I did a search but didn't find much.
I sheared the top of mine off and need an aftermarket replacement. I see alot about the Dedenbears but don't know if that is cause it is relatively new.
 

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My opinion is the Crane knuckle.

Excellent material selection ---> cast steel.

Extra web and flange material

No welds to fatigue.
 

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Weilder Billt knuckels are IMO the strongest for the simple fact they have preloaded bearings instead of springs (they won't flex)and the steel is thick as hell. They have to be set up correctly for steering from right to left and proper welding is needed for the C-end gussets. And because they don't flex you probably won't be breaking U-joints.
 

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I bought the first style that crane had, and swaped sides. So the arms pionted to the back,
put my ram on the long side tube to the stock arm. Then welded my steering arms to the top of the knuckle. Up high out of the way but still in front of the axle.
At full droop I have 1 inch of clearance between ram and link.
The point is , the versatility of the crane stuff gives the suspension designers a whole new world of options. I wish they would have incorporated the inter lock on the original's.
So far the welds ave held up fine, the welding shop said the material the knuckles are made from made his job easy.
I vote for the crane knuckles. Like Petersons 4Wheel & Offroad
said "KING OF THE KNUCKLES" Like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for" somtimes more!!



http://www.highclearance.com =CRANE
 

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How many people are actually running Crane knuckles?? I have heard plenty of people talk about how great they are, but the guy earlier in this post is the first person that I have heard say they actually run them.

Welderbilt's seems to hold up to Camo's testing so far, and there are a bunch of guys on this board that are raving Dedenbears knuckles. Hell for the price of Dedenbears, you could buy two sets, but it doesn't look like you'll be needing the 2nd;)
 

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i think it is great that crane and dedenbear stepped up to the plate and built some knucles and i am sure they are marginally better than stock, especially for a ford but if you want BOMB PROOF knuckles then there is really only one choice. welderbilts fabricated knuckles are by design and material far stronger than any other.

welderbilts:

fabricated plate steel
tig welded
5/8 bolts with cone washer on the steering arm
top bearing not bushing
dual steering stops



last i talked to Bill he said the price has come down and is now well under $900
 

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camo said:
welderbilts fabricated knuckles are by design and material far stronger than any other.

welderbilts:

fabricated plate steel
tig welded
5/8 bolts with cone washer on the steering arm
top bearing not bushing
dual steering stops
Care to elaborate on your extensive material and design evaluation of the fabricated Welderbilt knuckle compared to the fully cast steel part produced by Crane? Please back up your comments with technical details that will help us lesser informed understand how you came to this conclusion.

Answer the following questions and it will help lead us to the correct material and process choice for this type of part.

1.What material is used for the plates? HRS, CRS, Quenched and tempered? What edge treatment is used to eliminate the slag, sharp edge, and maximize surface finish?

2.What post weld heat treatment/stress relieve is used to minimize the residual stress from the welding process? How does this effect the material strength for the material used?

3.How is the weld termination at the shear plane betwen the top and side plates addressed to remove/elimnate the stress riser? What is the root and toe radius of the final weld and how does this compare to the cast fillet in the Crane part.

4.What is the flange thickness compared to the Crane?

5.What is the web thickness compared to the Crane?

6.What is the fracture toughness (K1C value at 0 F) of the material used by Welderbilt? How does it compare to the Crane material? How does fracture toughness effect the durability of the part?

7.How are larger bolts with cones stronger than solid material in shear?


Let me go back to my original statement.

1. Crane has the best choice of material.

The normalization and heat treat process will eliminate residual stresses in the casting and make a much stronger part than a welded structure.

2. The steering arm design by Crane is by FAR the safest and strongest design I have seen to date. They could easily improve it by adding cones under the flat head but as it is it's MUCH stronger than 4 5/8 bolts with cones in shear.

3. Dual steering stops.



Now the best part of Welderbilts knuckles is the top bearing. I like the idea. But I haven't studied his actual design so I cannot say how well it's implemented.

The load coming into the upper kingpin is primarily perpendicular to the king pin inclination axis. A tapered roller bearing is best used when seing a load sharing between both bearings. In this case the lower bearing carries all the vertical load and half of any moment, except about the king pin inclination axis as that moment is carried by the steering system.
 

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I do not think that welder boy's knuckle is far stronger than a WMS knuckle. Also when I checked with him on his knuckle he was not making a knuckle for the ford. This was 2 1/2 years, he did have a system that would allow me to use my ford spindles and wheel hubs but I had to run his high steer arm, and toss my outers in favor of D70 outers, that where not cut down.

Wagoneers knuckle was a simple bolt up for the ford, no spacers and I can run any arm. But I am in complete agreement that welder boy's knuckle is a kick ass knuckle that is fairly priced for the amount of work that goes into making it, as is the WMS knuckle.

Welder boy, Bent-N-Twisted, and WMS are the only three vendors that I am aware of that fabricate their own knuckles. Welder boy, and WMS are exspensive, but they have a ton of time in them by some very talented people. Mike's knuckle is less exspensive, but he has a less time consuming fabrication process

Everyone else casts there own knuckles, while there is the pattern money to be recouped,I have heard estimates of $10K. It proably only costs $75 a knuckle to cast and machine the product no matter what the material is iron or 8630. Dedenbears knuckle is probably the best value in the cast knuckles. Is Cane's stronger materially yes, the question that needs to be answered is cranes whole product stronger 2x than dedendears and does it need to be.

The lab @ the hammers, has not been able to break any of the aftermarket's so how much over kill do you want is the question at hand.
 

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Not many people break the stock ones they're just hard to find. So any of the after market ones seem to be fine. Who has the best price? I'll go spend the $ somewhere it'll make a difference.
 

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imo cast is still cast, wheeling is still wheeling. this sport is all about "OH SH*T HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?" when it does happen, how do ya fix it? well i think a steal that is easily weldable and bendable is the best for a TRAIL wheeler. regardless of how they are cast they can still be broken by the "OH SHIT fairy" and when im out there GETTING IT and get bitten i know i can fix it EASILY. WBs knuckles still have room for improvement and when we sit down and work out some changes for the new cnc'd ones we are working on. we are sure you will see that ours are better. they are not that pricey when you consider what you get for your money. all the cast ones are still more then 500 a set and all you get is a bare casting. with little improvemnt over the stock design.
 

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rock ready said:
SO what do you guys think are the best for overall strength?
The question at hand is which is stonger, not which is the best value. In my opinion the Crane knuckle is FAR stronger than the other alternatives.

If the question came down to which is a better value then the answer would be different. I have 4 sets of stock knuckles in my shop so I would choose a stock knuckle for affordability.

If I had to purchase a replacement for competition and needed increased strength I'd look at either Welderbilts or Dedenbear, whichever is the least expensive.

If I wanted the strongest knuckle on the market and money was no object, I'd buy the Crane.


GearMan said:
imo cast is still cast, wheeling is still wheeling. this sport is all about "OH SH*T HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?" when it does happen, how do ya fix it? well i think a steal (edit: steel) that is easily weldable and bendable is the best for a TRAIL wheeler. regardless of how they are cast they can still be broken by the "OH SHIT fairy"
Lucky for you the Crane knuckle is cast steel and can be weld repaired on the trail, the Dedenbear knuckle is ductile iron and can be weld repaired if done carefully, by a competent welder.

The repair would be almost as strong as the parent material. It won't have anywhere near the fatigue strength as the parent material but then it's very difficult to get a weld fatigue life up to cast steel parent material level anyway. With any of the three choices, if it fails and is weld repaired on the trail it needs to be replaced as soon as possible.

So, a part that's made from better material, cast to eliminate stress risers and welds in high stress regions, increased web and flange thickness, good surface finish and fillet radii, has by far the strongest steering arm attachment point and is weld repairable (although it should be replaced after weld repair) to get you out of that "OH SHIT" situation sounds like the strongest option.

Not taking anything away from Welderbilt or Dedenbear, they both appear to make fine products, are good values and are a definite improvement over stock. IMO the Crane represents the strongest option.

I don't hock my business on this board but if the board/manufacturer's want an accurate assessment of these parts I can clear up any doubt in about two weeks time. All I need are the prints/solid models of the parts, true stress/strain curves and the design load cases. I'll run them in Abaqus full nonlinear material plasticity (non failure) to show where the failure will occur, how much load it takes and what deformation occurs before the section goes fully plastic. Throw in the stock part and I can even tell you what the increase over the OEM design is.

I have no doubt what the outcome will be, but it will give me the ability to put a number on it.
 

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lt1yj


since i relize you are an ME i will respect your knowladge of material and process and if you choose to consider a cast part strong enuff for the hard core wheeling you do in Illinois then so be it. for me however i will continue to consider the crane a nice stock replacment part and not up to the punishment i dish out.

my ******* engineering spidey sence tells me that a fabricated steel plate knuckle is gonna be stronger than a cast one.


also as to my breaking my front axle the impact that broke my axle was not the sort of impact that would have broken the knuckle, i think even a stock knuckle would have survived. the loads i put the knuckle under with my full hydro howe ram with my tires wedged in a huge crack is what kills knuckles and i can tell you that what i have put my knuckles through is the abuse that cast knuckles just do not live through.
 

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lt1yj said:
His tube failed instead.
A wise old tuff truck racer once told me, "If you jump it high enough, anything will break."

If I can't jump high enough to break a $5 part, what benefit do I derive by spending $10 for a part that's 20% stronger?

What benefit do I derive by spending $10 for a part that isn't even claimed (let alone tested) to *be* stronger than the $5 part?

I guess it comes down to features. If I can actually use some additional side benefit on the $10 part, great... if they're wear items, and the $10 part lasts three times as long, cool, money well spent. If they're not wear items, and/or there are no additionally (useful to me--what good is it to pay extra for features I can't use?) useful features, then the $5 part is what I need.
 
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