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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A subject that has been beat to death countless times.

Got in a pissing match here;
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/dana-44-a-1123640/

Cliff notes.........
Since the Dana 30 aftermarket shafts use the same 760 U Joint as the 44. There is no advantage to running a 44 with 37`s down. With the shaft ears being the weak point.

Even went so far as to call Superior and they confirmed that they use the same full circle 760`s on both their 30 and 44 shafts. So I have to consent on that fact.

I understand the other guys argument. But lack hard knowledge to argue the merits of the 30 vs the 44 when it comes to the axle as a whole.

If you use the other guys logic. Running 37`s down the extra beef on the 44 is not worth the expense of swapping out a 30 that has aftermarket shafts.

Take a look at the link and let me know what you think.

Yeah I might have gotten my ass kicked but still argue the 44 is much better.
 

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What about tube size and thickness? Or does that not count? If someone is trying to say thier hp 30 is a strong as a hp44 cause of shafts, they are probably not worth arguing with. They are usually the "bolt on" guys and dont know how, nor couldnt complete an axle swap anyhow. So they try and defend their built 30.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
What about tube size and thickness? Or does that not count? If someone is trying to say thier hp 30 is a strong as a hp44 cause of shafts, they are probably not worth arguing with. They are usually the "bolt on" guys and dont know how, nor couldnt complete an axle swap anyhow. So they try and defend their built 30.
I would agree RockBuggy but the guy seems pretty well versed in the JF link. Claiming the similarity in shafts negates the extra beef on the 44.

also have to look at HP/LP.
Both would be HP.

Can`t speak for the tube on the 30.

On the HP44, since we are talking a YJ app. (Drivers Drop) I am going with the .5 wall tubes. Specifically the 78/79 Ford.

But an argument can be made for LP44 vs. HP30
 

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I cant imagine the unit bearing design on the 30 is stronger than the bearing design on the 44? Or that the brakes are gonna be as big either. I dont think the lp44 vs the hp30 is even close. I have seen 30's sheer pinion's between the bearings numerous times, so yeah the hp is stronger gear contact wise but it still necks down pretty small which is the weak point.
 

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ill come from the other direction and claim the problem is the tire size. 37s are just an odd size. For 35s and lower an hp30 with a little bit of turd polish provides a nice balance of clearence and "enough" strength. For 39 and bigger a dana 60 is an easy choice becuase of the afformentioned ujoint size weakness in the d44 being the same size as the d30.

So my stance is going to be run 35s on a polished hp30 untill either you cant keep it together EVER or your terrain warrents and extra 2.5 inches of clearence (40s) and then you can run d60s

PS this is what you can do on only 32s with 4 squirrels
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708090&highlight=
 

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A subject that has been beat to death countless times.

Got in a pissing match here;
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/dana-44-a-1123640/

Cliff notes.........
Since the Dana 30 aftermarket shafts use the same 760 U Joint as the 44. There is no advantage to running a 44 with 37`s down. With the shaft ears being the weak point.

Even went so far as to call Superior and they confirmed that they use the same full circle 760`s on both their 30 and 44 shafts. So I have to consent on that fact.

I understand the other guys argument. But lack hard knowledge to argue the merits of the 30 vs the 44 when it comes to the axle as a whole.

If you use the other guys logic. Running 37`s down the extra beef on the 44 is not worth the expense of swapping out a 30 that has aftermarket shafts.

Take a look at the link and let me know what you think.

Yeah I might have gotten my ass kicked but still argue the 44 is much better.
I suspect it's easier to do the swap on a leaf sprung rig as long as you don't have to cut anything down to narrow it.

That said, unless it's a direct swap, that's a bunch of work to run the same axles and u-joints that you can break with a HP 30.

And as has been said, 37's that hook up are a bastard tire size. If you build an axle strong enough to run them pretty reliably, you can piss enough money on it to go ahead and run 39's.

We as a group, get a fair bit of grief for running a lot of HP 30's out in JV on 35's. Then they run a few trails with us, see that we keep up just fine and don't break and the grief stops.

The other side of that coin is there are folks who can break an anvil in a rubber room with little more than a tack hammer. Then there's folks that can run a low pinion Dana 30 in JV on 37's for a couple of years and get by just fine.

Sorry for the size, my wife swapped computers and lost her video edit program, but anyway, first guy is running 37's on a LP 30.

http://www.justaddrocks.com/Movies/sunbonnent.wmv
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The thing that bothers me is the plethora of support for the 44.

Are we fooling ourselves with all the HD 44 parts ? From the Jana stuff to aftermarket knuckles, trusses. U-Joints to hubs.

I could see the RCV shafts being an upgrade.

Are the 35 spline carriers and corresponding shafts still using 760`s ? Thinking that a Dana 60 sized 1480`s might not fit through the knuckle ?? Or do they ?

Or are we simply adding a little peripheral insurance with the 44 around a known Dana 30 sized 760 joint ?

Hate to think that Carl over at Jana doing all the work to ad a 50 sized R/P when it is going to be driven by the same 30 sized 760.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I suspect it's easier to do the swap on a leaf sprung rig as long as you don't have to cut anything down to narrow it.

That said, unless it's a direct swap, that's a bunch of work to run the same axles and u-joints that you can break with a HP 30.

And as has been said, 37's that hook up are a bastard tire size. If you build an axle strong enough to run them pretty reliably, you can piss enough money on it to go ahead and run 39's.

We as a group, get a fair bit of grief for running a lot of HP 30's out in JV on 35's. Then they run a few trails with us, see that we keep up just fine and don't break and the grief stops.

The other side of that coin is there are folks who can break an anvil in a rubber room with little more than a tack hammer. Then there's folks that can run a low pinion Dana 30 in JV on 37's for a couple of years and get by just fine.

Sorry for the size, my wife swapped computers and lost her video edit program, but anyway, first guy is running 37's on a LP 30.

http://www.justaddrocks.com/Movies/sunbonnent.wmv
That`s just it.
I`ve taken my 78 Ford HP44 and narrowed it. Rotated and gusseted the C`s. Converted to 5 on 5.5. Reid knuckles and NWF Hi Steer with a PSC Ram assist. Superior shafts and CTM`s. A girdle helps keep the 5.13`s and Detroit in place. Warn premium lockouts.

In other words....Spent a shit load of money. To run 37`s.

Since the axle is already in place and paid for. The only way to upgrade what "appears" to be the weak link is a set of RCV`s.

Or a 35 spline carrier and perhaps a set of 60 style shafts. Which still would be cheaper then procuring, building and installing a 60.

Granted it would still be a 44 but at that point it should handle 37`s with no problem...............
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Would you run a Dana 30 under a 3/4 ton truck?
Then why would you trust a dana 44 under one
Consider the 3/4 ton truck would have a greater load capacity. Which says nothing about putting the power to the ground.

Not an argument but simply an observation.
 

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That`s just it.
I`ve taken my 78 Ford HP44 and narrowed it. Rotated and gusseted the C`s. Converted to 5 on 5.5. Reid knuckles and NWF Hi Steer with a PSC Ram assist. Superior shafts and CTM`s. A girdle helps keep the 5.13`s and Detroit in place. Warn premium lockouts.

In other words....Spent a shit load of money. To run 37`s.

Since the axle is already in place and paid for. The only way to upgrade what "appears" to be the weak link is a set of RCV`s.

Or a 35 spline carrier and perhaps a set of 60 style shafts. Which still would be cheaper then procuring, building and installing a 60.

Granted it would still be a 44 but at that point it should handle 37`s with no problem...............
With the 35 spline carrier to get equivalent to my front axle and the RCV's, I think you'd be surprised at how close you are to spending the same money.

My knuckles and steering and your knuckles and steering are pretty much a wash.

Ram assist is a wash.

Not sure on the brakes, if you bought good parts, we're very close. If you bought A1 Cardone crap, then one of my calipers cost more than your whole brake set up.

The big difference will be my Currie HP 9" third member. Set up with gears, ARB ready to bolt in I'm about 13-1500 and that's a chuck of change that you have to come up with all at once.

At the end of the day, my 609 will handle and has handled my 39" Red Label Krawlers and now 40" KMT/R's with no issues.

I don't know that you could say the same for your Front axle. Our gear sets wouldn't be an issue, but I'd kill those u-joints in 1 run in JV.
 

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The thing that bothers me is the plethora of support for the 44.

Are we fooling ourselves with all the HD 44 parts ? From the Jana stuff to aftermarket knuckles, trusses. U-Joints to hubs.

I could see the RCV shafts being an upgrade.

Are the 35 spline carriers and corresponding shafts still using 760`s ? Thinking that a Dana 60 sized 1480`s might not fit through the knuckle ?? Or do they ?

Or are we simply adding a little peripheral insurance with the 44 around a known Dana 30 sized 760 joint ?

Hate to think that Carl over at Jana doing all the work to ad a 50 sized R/P when it is going to be driven by the same 30 sized 760.
Step back and have this exact same comparison as little as 2 years ago. Yes, the 35 spline carriers are limited by what u-joint will fit through the knuckle.

Don't forget that Carl's work also works in the rear axle. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
With the 35 spline carrier to get equivalent to my front axle and the RCV's, I think you'd be surprised at how close you are to spending the same money.

My knuckles and steering and your knuckles and steering are pretty much a wash.

Ram assist is a wash.

Not sure on the brakes, if you bought good parts, we're very close. If you bought A1 Cardone crap, then one of my calipers cost more than your whole brake set up.

The big difference will be my Currie HP 9" third member. Set up with gears, ARB ready to bolt in I'm about 13-1500 and that's a chuck of change that you have to come up with all at once.

At the end of the day, my 609 will handle and has handled my 39" Red Label Krawlers and now 40" KMT/R's with no issues.

I don't know that you could say the same for your Front axle. Our gear sets wouldn't be an issue, but I'd kill those u-joints in 1 run in JV.
Interesting.........Considering an RCV set alone would equal the ARB/Currie 9".
30 spline RCV and call it a day since the rest of the axle is where it`s at ??


Step back and have this exact same comparison as little as 2 years ago. Yes, the 35 spline carriers are limited by what u-joint will fit through the knuckle.

Don't forget that Carl's work also works in the rear axle. :D
Not sure I understand your first sentence here.

Until we can see real world results I`ll hold judgment about bigger being better. In a rear drive application.

IMHO gear deflection will still be an issue. Though Carl has tried to address it......Is it enough ??
 

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With the 35 spline carrier to get equivalent to my front axle and the RCV's, I think you'd be surprised at how close you are to spending the same money.

My knuckles and steering and your knuckles and steering are pretty much a wash.

Ram assist is a wash.

Not sure on the brakes, if you bought good parts, we're very close. If you bought A1 Cardone crap, then one of my calipers cost more than your whole brake set up.

The big difference will be my Currie HP 9" third member. Set up with gears, ARB ready to bolt in I'm about 13-1500 and that's a chuck of change that you have to come up with all at once.

At the end of the day, my 609 will handle and has handled my 39" Red Label Krawlers and now 40" KMT/R's with no issues.

I don't know that you could say the same for your Front axle. Our gear sets wouldn't be an issue, but I'd kill those u-joints in 1 run in JV.

Your running a currie high pinion in the front with 40s?

Im assuming no since the price from currie is over 2k and you say 13-1500.

What spline high 9? 35?
 

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Reading some of these "theroys" are just WOW! The common sense factor seems to have gone out the window. We keep hearing the same bullshit about all you need to do is shafts etc and its just as good. If a 30 was that easy to make just as strong, manufactures would install them in fullsize pickups. Even if the 30 could handle the same twisting force as the 44 at the wheels, what about load? You dont swap out 30's to 44's just so you dont break a shaft! Some realize the axle tube is much larger and stronger(needed when driving over rocks and bouncing), the wheel bearings are cheap, easy, much stronger and can be rebuilt. The brakes are larger, and the life span is much further. 44 steering knucles are designed much better and are cheap to install crossover/highsteer with larger TRE's. Older 44's run locking hubs, thus allowing a full time locker. Cause unless im missing something here, all 30's since the yj dont come from the factory with selectable hubs just some disconnect that no longer works with the new shafts. This giving you the option of the way over priced hub kit, or being force to run a pricey selactable locker such as an OX or ARB. But yeah a 30's just as good with shafts:shaking:
 
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