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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So im polishing this turd of a D44 i got out of a 79 Ford its a High Pinion, Drivers Drop, Front and it was an empty housing when i got it. im trying to put 4.09's and an ARB locker in. The problem is that i dont have any pinion shim measurements from the old R&P to reference from. Ive been searching the net over for specs but no real luck. I am in the process of trying to calculate the shim thickness by measuring the Pinion Head Thickness and Master Housing Dimension but im not sure im doing it right.. If anyone has any insight id greatly appreciate it .. in fact if anyone knows what theyre doin and wants to help theres ice cold beer in the fridge!
Thanks
 

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I'd probly start with .030 and see where that leads you.. make big jumps till you start to see something. dont know where your at on the carrier, but in the same situation try .050 per side
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
went on vacation and just got started again. i called 4wheel parts before i saw ur post and talked to their differential techs in the shop. they said to start w/ .030 on the pinion. got it all together and the pattern didnt look right, based on other forums i determined the pinion was too far away. i added .010 and rechecked. with some shim adjustments to the locker the pattern looks good from what i can tell and backlash is between .007-.009". now im drilling and tapping for the air line. after that its reinstall the whole thing and adjust the pinion bearing preload. a little confused on how to set it and the setting the pinion nut torque at the same time but im still reading on it.
i posted pics of the contact pattern here. http://arkansascrawlers.com/main/forum/showthread.php?p=101405#post101405

thanks for the help
 

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after that its reinstall the whole thing and adjust the pinion bearing preload. a little confused on how to set it and the setting the pinion nut torque at the same time but im still reading on it.
i posted pics of the contact pattern here. http://arkansascrawlers.com/main/forum/showthread.php?p=101405#post101405

thanks for the help
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/

BillaVista said:
Pinion-bearing Preload
Definition: Bearing preload is a measure of the rolling resistance in a bearing or “bearing stiffness”. As a cone is pressed against its cup, the point or line of contact between the roller and cup becomes larger, friction increases and preload is said to be higher. Correct bearing preload is a trade-off between bearing stiffness and the wear resulting from the preloading.
Think of it as: How tightly the pinion-bearing cones are pressed into their cups and consequently how stiff they are to rotate.
How Measured: An inch-pound torque wrench is used on the pinion nut to measure the torque required to rotate the installed pinion.
Adjusted Via: Outer pinion shims placed between the face of the outer pinion-bearing cone and the shoulder on the pinion shaft. Adding shims causes the pinion-bearings to be spaced away from their cups, reducing pre-load and vice-versa. Add shims to reduce pre-load and remove shims to increase preload.
Note: Pinion preload is normally specified without the carrier or axle shafts installed, with the yoke installed and pinion nut torqued to spec but with no pinion oil seal installed. An installed carrier can add 2-4 in-lbs and a new oil seal adds approx. 3 in-lbs. Too little preload diminishes load-bearing capacity as the load-bearing surfaces between rollers and cup are decreased. Too much preload increases friction, resulting in excessive noise, heat, and rapid wear.
Set the pinion bearing preload with out the ring gear and carrier installed. On a D44, you use shims to set the preload, the nut is torqued to ~200ft/lbs then you check how much rotational force it takes to turn the pinion with an in/lb torque wrench. D44 pinion bearing preload should be 14-19 in/lbs.

The shims that set preload (smaller diameter shims between the shoulder on the pinion and the outer bearing) are not the same shims that set pinion depth (larger diameter shims between the pinion head and inner pinion bearing)

While setting pinion depth, use an old pinion nut until you're ready for final assembly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
well im glad i mentioned that. i didnt know u had to take the carrier out to set the pinion preload but it makes sense. Im tracking on which shims to use but if i read that correctly u add shims to reduce the preload? it just seems like im not even gonna be able to turn the pinion if i put 200ftlbs on the pinion nut. Like i said this is all new to me so ill find out tomorrow. Thanks again for your help!

oh btw did anyone check out the contact pattern? This is the first one ive done and it'd be nice to have a second opinion
 

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well im glad i mentioned that. i didnt know u had to take the carrier out to set the pinion preload but it makes sense. Im tracking on which shims to use but if i read that correctly u add shims to reduce the preload? it just seems like im not even gonna be able to turn the pinion if i put 200ftlbs on the pinion nut. Like i said this is all new to me so ill find out tomorrow. Thanks again for your help!

oh btw did anyone check out the contact pattern? This is the first one ive done and it'd be nice to have a second opinion
Yes. Adding shims increases the distance between the bearing and races, so less preload.

D44 instructions from Dana website:
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5310-3.PDF

Page 47: pinion nut torque to 200-220 ft lbs and pinion bearing preload (torque to rotate) should be 20-40 in lbs.

Yukon gear install from Randy's Ring and Pinion has it listed as 14-19 IN/LBS.

As you torque down on the pinion nut, keep checking that you can still rotate it as you go, don't just ram the nut on. If your shim stack is too short you can damage the bearings.

If it gets too hard to turn before you get to 220 ft/lbs back off and add more shims.

Here's the pics from your link:
How much resistance did you put on the ring gear when you ran your pattern, I don't see much of a pattern on the coast side.
Gear Metal Steel

Auto part Steel Metal
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the info. I also had a question about the shims on the pinion (yolk side). Its not a crush sleeve but there are two different shim packs.. one that goes behind the bearing race on the yolk side of the axle (actually sits in the axle housing) and the other shim pack goes on the pinion shaft between the small bearing on the yolk side of the pinion shaft. Im assuming the shims that go between the bearing on the pinion shaft are the ones used to adjust the preload. If thats the case what would i need shims behind the bearing race for?

as far as resistance on the ring gear - i pressed against the ring gear as much as i could while i turning the pinion at the same time. granted the hand i used to push with is in a brace recovering from minor tendon damage... not enough u think?
 

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polishing a turd is one thing take a look at the jana 54 thread on ways to really beef up the ring and pinion to 9" vs 8.5"


the key is like was said above "if its too hard to turn before you get to 220 ft/lbs back off and add more shims"
 

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Thanks for the info. I also had a question about the shims on the pinion (yolk side). Its not a crush sleeve but there are two different shim packs.. one that goes behind the bearing race on the yolk side of the axle (actually sits in the axle housing) and the other shim pack goes on the pinion shaft between the small bearing on the yolk side of the pinion shaft. Im assuming the shims that go between the bearing on the pinion shaft are the ones used to adjust the preload. If thats the case what would i need shims behind the bearing race for?

as far as resistance on the ring gear - i pressed against the ring gear as much as i could while i turning the pinion at the same time. granted the hand i used to push with is in a brace recovering from minor tendon damage... not enough u think?
It's a YOKE. Yolk is the yellow part of an egg.

Yes, there are two sets of shims on the pinion. One set for pinion depth, and one set for pinion preload. The larger diameter set goes between the head of the pinion and the inner pinion bearing to adjust how deep the pinion is. The other set (smaller diameter) goes on the shaft of the pinion before you slide the outer pinion bearing on. You don't put shims between the outer bearing and yoke.

Read through the BillaVista gearset up article and the .pdf from Dana that I linked.

You'll need a large pipewrench or buy/make tool to hold the pinion yoke so you can torque the pinion nut down. I made one out of a piece of 24" long piece of C-channel, drilled 4 holes that matched up with the yoke, and used a hole saw to cut a center hole big enough for the socket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yea I know its yoke. Spellcheck must've got that one. I've already got the pinion depth set. My question was referring to the outer bearing race only because I have shims in this kit that match it. You answered my question with the "you don't put shims between the outer bearing and Yoke." the only thing I can figure is they must be for another setup. It didn't really make sense to me either.. just didn't want to get this thing together and be like.. oh what r these spare parts??
thanks for the link too. ive been using a pipe wrench but I may have to fab up something like you used for the yoke
 

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If you ordered a master install kit, they will include more than what you need. Sometimes they include shims for other styles of differentials that share the same bearings, or more carrier bearing shims, etc. So they can use one part number/master install kit for more than one kind of diff. Use what you need, you'll have some parts left over from the install kit.
 

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Dana 44 Carrier Bearing Preload.

According to Dana the correct preload is obtained ny adding 0.010" total to the shim pack(s). The procedure measures total shims needed with dummy bearings (easily made) installed on the carrier with no ring gear installed. The the ring gear is then installed and the shims needed to get zero lash on the ring gear side is measured. This measuement is subtracted from the total which gives you the shim pack size on the non ring gear side. This gives you no backlash with no preload. Adding 0.010" to the non ring gear side is supposed to give you the correct preload and backlash. I got zero preload by feel swapped shims a few times to get proper back lash and added 005" to each side.
 

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I'm sure that the OP is totally stoked to see that information....five years after starting this thread.
 

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I'm sure that the OP is totally stoked to see that information....five years after starting this thread.
^^^I will never understand these comments since it's now four years since you made it and nine years since OP, yet I'm still finding this information relevant. Google searches will bring these threads up for years. That's how I found it. Continuous information should be allowed to be added to old threads for this reason.
 
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