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Looks good, do you have any pics of bumpers made? Are they sand castings for the pieces?
 

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jeepguy616 said:
Looks good, do you have any pics of bumpers made? Are they sand castings for the pieces?
The dies above are made partly by sandcasting and mainly by thick metal plates.. I have got o ask... How effiecient is sandcasting in making dies? I mean how good are the dies?
Ehsan
 

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We do use sand castings for bigger dies like some bumpers and hoods and doors and alot of bigger things. The reason for the casting is it is cheaper than buying a solid chunk steel and then machining it all down to shape. The draw back is that cast is alot softer then some steels. So you have to harden the working surface in order for it to last longer. For smaller bracket dies and pieces we just use solid steel and machine it down.
As far as cast we can get cast iron or cast steel. We have only used cast steel as it holds up better. But very messy to grind on. Be sure you are covering you mouth and nose as it is not good to breath in.

All the dies I have seen from you guys are single hit dies.
Our shop builds mainly progresive dies as opposed to draw dies. I myself am working on a transfer die right now that does have a draw die in the line up.

A Progresive is where a coil of sheet steel that is rolled up and sits next to the press on a coil feeder. The die in the press is a one piece unit that has a upper die and lower die. Steel is fed into one end of the die which has multiple stations where things are happening. A basic example is steel enters the die in the first station or operation and it is trimmed to a size and shape as to if you took the final part and unfoled all the bends out and made it into a flat sheet. It is still attached to the coil as it progesses down the die and this is how it gets the name Progressive die or Prog. die for short. It is attached to the coil only in a small section as to not interupt any further operations. Next it slides along to the next station that may bend a tab or form a shape. Next it slides down to the next station and may get a few holes punched into it. Next it slides down to the next station and may get finally cut off the strip of steel and it is your final part.

The example above is a small 4 station prog. die. The idea of it is to save time. Which inturn saves and makes more money. As the first part goes from the 1st station to the next another section of coil steel is getting loaded in so at all times (in the example above) there are 4 pieces in the die. One in each staion doing something different in one single hit on a press.

Transfer dies are almost like you guys have. Instead of having a bunch of stations in a die the transfer dies are each station is its own die. The part is hit in the first die. Then it is hand transfered to the next. Or it is set up with a robotic transfer arm that automatically transfer the part.

Kind of a quick example of different dies.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
jeepguy616 said:
We do use sand castings for bigger dies like some bumpers and hoods and doors and alot of bigger things. The reason for the casting is it is cheaper than buying a solid chunk steel and then machining it all down to shape. The draw back is that cast is alot softer then some steels. So you have to harden the working surface in order for it to last longer. For smaller bracket dies and pieces we just use solid steel and machine it down.
As far as cast we can get cast iron or cast steel. We have only used cast steel as it holds up better. But very messy to grind on. Be sure you are covering you mouth and nose as it is not good to breath in.

All the dies I have seen from you guys are single hit dies.
Our shop builds mainly progresive dies as opposed to draw dies. I myself am working on a transfer die right now that does have a draw die in the line up.

A Progresive is where a coil of sheet steel that is rolled up and sits next to the press on a coil feeder. The die in the press is a one piece unit that has a upper die and lower die. Steel is fed into one end of the die which has multiple stations where things are happening. A basic example is steel enters the die in the first station or operation and it is trimmed to a size and shape as to if you took the final part and unfoled all the bends out and made it into a flat sheet. It is still attached to the coil as it progesses down the die and this is how it gets the name Progressive die or Prog. die for short. It is attached to the coil only in a small section as to not interupt any further operations. Next it slides along to the next station that may bend a tab or form a shape. Next it slides down to the next station and may get a few holes punched into it. Next it slides down to the next station and may get finally cut off the strip of steel and it is your final part.

The example above is a small 4 station prog. die. The idea of it is to save time. Which inturn saves and makes more money. As the first part goes from the 1st station to the next another section of coil steel is getting loaded in so at all times (in the example above) there are 4 pieces in the die. One in each staion doing something different in one single hit on a press.

Transfer dies are almost like you guys have. Instead of having a bunch of stations in a die the transfer dies are each station is its own die. The part is hit in the first die. Then it is hand transfered to the next. Or it is set up with a robotic transfer arm that automatically transfer the part.

Kind of a quick example of different dies.
Thanks.. That might be a quick example, buthat is more then I knew about dies.. :).. I would love to see any diagrams, layouts of the prog dies? any links? I am looking at the google books section and it has some info but not complete books.. I will be trying to get a die made using sand casting soon.. When you say hardenning, what do you mean? Heating it up and leting it cool down?
 

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Yes hardening is what I meant. All steel has a different process that it takes to harden. Some you heat and air cool. Some are heated red hot and water is poured onto it called flame hard. Also heat and quinch in oil called oil hard. Heat treating is also another art to the aspect of steel called metalurgy. May want to see if you can find books on that as well.

I do not have any diagrams right now as I have a few days off of work. I will try and find somethings.

Update check this out about progressive dies PDF format

http://www.ugs.com/products/nx/docs/wp_nx_prog_die_wizard.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #9
jeepguy616 said:
Yes hardening is what I meant. All steel has a different process that it takes to harden. Some you heat and air cool. Some are heated red hot and water is poured onto it called flame hard. Also heat and quinch in oil called oil hard. Heat treating is also another art to the aspect of steel called metalurgy. May want to see if you can find books on that as well.

I do not have any diagrams right now as I have a few days off of work. I will try and find somethings.

Update check this out about progressive dies PDF format

http://www.ugs.com/products/nx/docs/wp_nx_prog_die_wizard.pdf
Hmmm.. The mechancs here heat the metal and then bury it in the earth to let it cool itself. Thats hardenning here.. I would like to emphasizse that the info I am giving here is what I got from a select group of mechanics who are not wealthy enough and technologically advanced enough to have the latest equip and knowledge. It does not mean that people dont have advanced machinary and knowlege here in Pakistan. :)
Ehsan
 

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ehsankiani said:
Hmmm.. The mechancs here heat the metal and then bury it in the earth to let it cool itself. Thats hardenning here.. Ehsan
that wouldn't be hardening...thats anealing and would make it soft and workable at least thats the case with most common steels.

Coil springs, and leaf springs are good sources for tool steel for making different chisels etc... look up blacksmithing on google and read through the sites lots of good info on junkyard metalurgy.
 

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You can harden steel by heating for a while then quenching. I imagine putting the steel in the "earth" would quench it a bit. Annealling is a longer term cooling and after hardening would be called tempering.
 

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Pook said:
that wouldn't be hardening...thats anealing and would make it soft and workable at least thats the case with most common steels.

Coil springs, and leaf springs are good sources for tool steel for making different chisels etc... look up blacksmithing on google and read through the sites lots of good info on junkyard metalurgy.
You are right.. Sorry I got it wrong.. :)..
Ehsan
 

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I believe the process of heating up a piece of steel and then buring it is called normalizing it. I have heard storys of old diemakers and machinist doing this with things such as angle plates. They say it makes the steel more stabile and has less of a chance for it to change as for instance a angle plate going out of square.
 
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