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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First off, this isn't a joke and I know it's not Tuesday :flipoff2::laughing:

Here's the deal with this red-headed step child of a project: I'm a college student and on a small budget. I can do some fabbing and welding with some of the tools I already have and could buy a couple more to make this happen. I think my 225 Lincoln buzzbox is up to most of the tasks I do so no problem there.

Here's the kicker - I want to keep my 4.0/5speed/231 combo. I just picked up a 231 with SYE for a great price so I want to keep it, plus I just put in a nice front driveshaft I found on CL. So, this means the Toy axle will have to be "retubed". That's where the questions start flowing for me...

I had a Toy mini pickup in high school, 83 with solid axle up front. I've been looking at pictures and trying to figure this out for myself without asking and I'm still not sure - Is it possible to grind down the welds at the pumpkin and pull out the tubes and swap them? From my understanding, I would have to make a jig when welding them up. This is not my DD, so I don't mind learning some new tricks when making this "new" housing.

Couple points I know someone will bring up-

#1 Why not run a "this or that" axle, like the Ford 8.8. True, Ford 8.8 is a good, decently cheap axle. It's strong, and they're plentiful up here. However, gears, lockers, shafts, housings - all that stuff is more expensive and a lot more rare than Toy stuff. Toy 8" rears can take some abuse and I don't plan on going bigger than 35s for some time, which will be 37s after that, so no need to mess around with a 8.8 that I'll have to swap out for a 1 ton later on when I go big. It doesn't matter what I run for the next couple years while I'm in school, I'll go big sticks when I got the cash! I got a HP30 up front I just rebuilt, so that will stay up front if I go with a 8.8.

#2 Buy an aftermarket housing. Yes, there are quite a few vendors making housings now, Ruff Stuff is even coming out with the ball ends very soon. This is an option, especially since they're willing to cut it to stock WMS and weld on the ball ends for me. If I can do it in my garage and save myself $500+, I'm going to.

#3 Go full widths - Had 'em on my last TJ, made everything too big for something I want to stay streetable and most importantly - legal. I don't want to dick around with custom axle shaft lengths either, so cutting them down is not something I want to get into.

#4 It's a Toy axle! Yeah, well, when's the last time you saw a big TJ with Jeep axles? :flipoff2: Same shit, just unorthodox

So, I drew up the pros and cons of each:

Ford 8.8/HP30 Pros
31 spline
Discs from factory
Some come with LSD
Very close to stock TJ width
high pinion front
other TJ owners might have parts
in stock trim, HP30 has more turning radius
keeps stock Jeep bolt pattern without adapters

8.8/HP30 cons
E-Clip rear axle
Still a D30
expensive upgrades
parts aren't as plentiful
hard and expensive to replace parts
Cast center sectons cannot be welded to

Toy front and rear Pros
Longfields are fairly cheap
housings are plentiful (not as many FJ80 housings though)
parts are EVERYWHERE
cheaper
rear axle needs almost nothing (Taco rear)
can weld anywhere on axle
easily braced with gussets
drop out third members
majority of gear ratios are 4.10, what I run
great ground clearance
Toy guys will be happy
Elockers from the factory
High pinion thirds from the factory

Toy cons
Might have to run a custom housing
FJ80 housings can be rare, but again, could go to a custom housing or gusset and truss it first time
will need new wheels or adapters
needs to be braced and trussed
rear may need converted to discs
Jeep guys will be pissed
8" ring and pinion could pose a problem if I really start hammering on these
might need new driveshafts but should be able to get an adapter or run a different flange, but I haven't made a DS for the SYE yet

So what do you guys think? Is it possible to retube a Toy mini truck housing for drivers side drop? Will it be a lot of work? Yeah, nobody said it would be easy. Would it be worth it? Oh yeah, I think so. I like the 8.8, but the idea of having swappable third members is a must have to me. I'd run a Aussie up front and a spool or Lincoln locked rear. I could find elockers if I wanted them, but I'd like to keep it simple for now. If I couldn't reuse the stock "tubes", what about getting some DOM and welding on the stock ball ends? Seems like it would keep the axle straight too. Thoughts?
 

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Premium Member
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13,748 Posts
im not sure whats gayer ... this thread or the fact that you have a mazda protege with a half year listed in your signature.

:laughing:
 

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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
im not sure whats gayer ... this thread or the fact that you have a mazda protege with a half year listed in your signature.
It matters :p You gonna help with some tech or just bullshit? :rolleyes:
 

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4,370 Posts
Making a toy axle drivers drop is pretty easy if you know how and cost $0....

Grind the welds at the knuckle balls,turn them approx 180 degrees,cut off the front cover turn it 180 degrees.....

drill out the two upper and lower toyota 3rd member holes 2 sizes larger and re-install 3rd....


 

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Premium Member
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16,324 Posts
It matters :p You gonna help with some tech or just bullshit? :rolleyes:
there is plenty of tech with what you are trying to do out there, hell on this website.

heres my tech ... dont do it
 

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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Making a toy axle drivers drop is pretty easy if you know how and cost $0....

Grind the welds at the knuckle balls,turn them approx 180 degrees,cut off the front cover turn it 180 degrees.....

drill out the two upper and lower toyota 3rd member holes 2 sizes larger and re-install 3rd....


:smokin: I found this link earlier when I was searching Google, this guy used a large pipe cutter to turn the knuckle balls but he was simply moving them a few degrees. Did you use a similar method? What do you run these axles in? Thanks for postin up.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/rotated_housing/

there is plenty of tech with what you are trying to do out there, hell on this website.
You gonna help with some tech or just bullshit? :rolleyes:
:shaking: Your posts bring teh suck.
 

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4,370 Posts
:smokin: I found this link earlier when I was searching Google, this guy used a large pipe cutter to turn the knuckle balls but he was simply moving them a few degrees. Did you use a similar method? What do you run these axles in? Thanks for postin up.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/rotated_housing/





:shaking: Your posts bring teh suck.
I actually built that axle for the rear of my Lo-budget Pimpin buggy....and used a stock toy steering axle for the front since I needed the drivelines to both be on the passengers side.....

Search Lo budget Pimpin here.....:D

i didnt use a pipe cutter...just a grinder!!!
 

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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thanks again Rock Ape :D Your builds are sick, I followed your Dodge Truggy for a while and didn't realize that was you.

Looks like I'm leaning towards doing the 180* flip on a FJ80 axle with the high pinion. Then using a Taco rear end, possibly with some small 1" spacers to make it slightly narrower than the front. The width of the FJ80 axle should be perfect for what I want since I rub a little bit at full lock with 35s.

Anyone have a good link to some FJ80 specs and tech? I'm trying to see what's swappable with mini truck axles :smokin:
 

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Premium Member
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3,137 Posts
if you want to do an axle with a toy center, and TJ outers, we build custom toy/TJ/XJ housings and have a built one in stock. Uses off the shelf axle shaft's and all. TJ width, can re-use stock style steering, stock outer part's and brakes.

PM if you're interested in knowing more. this is the same style of axle we run in our jeepspeed and have won the baja 1000 multiple times with, and ran the ruibcon for jeeper's jamboree, all in the same season!
 

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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the input Shaffer's, that's a kickass housing :smokin:

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on running a FJ80 front and Taco rear in my TJ. If anyone can think of a legitimate reason not to, please post up.
 

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Ford Bigot
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4,100 Posts
Buy a 1980+ Wagoneer front axle or a 1973-1977 Ford High Pinion D44 and one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyo...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2ea38f60ce

Don't waste your time polishing the turd of a stock Toyota housing in LH Drop as they have an innate ability to bend when heat is applied to them. D44 and a Ford 8.8 with shafts drilled to accept 6 x 5.5".

So in short your idea is stupid and expensive for not much gain on a stock 44. Now I agree Toyota axles have their plusses over Dana 44s but not when it comes. Your best bet for ease is to buy a complete Wagoneer and rob the axles out of it. Both my axles (Wagoneer) ran me under $400 from scouring Craigslist.
 

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The 80s are very limited for steering options, but pretty much your only option for a wide toy front axle without doing a custom housing

I think it's a fine idea as long as you don't plan on going too big with the tires and plan on staying lightweight
 

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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Buy a 1980+ Wagoneer front axle or a 1973-1977 Ford High Pinion D44 and one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyo...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2ea38f60ce

Don't waste your time polishing the turd of a stock Toyota housing in LH Drop as they have an innate ability to bend when heat is applied to them. D44 and a Ford 8.8 with shafts drilled to accept 6 x 5.5".

So in short your idea is stupid and expensive for not much gain on a stock 44. Now I agree Toyota axles have their plusses over Dana 44s but not when it comes. Your best bet for ease is to buy a complete Wagoneer and rob the axles out of it. Both my axles (Wagoneer) ran me under $400 from scouring Craigslist.
Can you explain to me how the FJ80 axle is not much stronger than a 44? I've found ONE Waggy 44 driver drop and it had been chopped up by the seller for some reason. They're rare up here for sure.

The 80s are very limited for steering options, but pretty much your only option for a wide toy front axle without doing a custom housing

I think it's a fine idea as long as you don't plan on going too big with the tires and plan on staying lightweight
Thanks, I will stay lightweight and want to run 35s for a while with the ability to jump to 37s without worrying about exploding stuff.
 

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if your asking this question, i dont imagine you are out-wheeling a HP30/8.8 combo. throw gears in them and be done. No stupid toyota housings made out of sheetmetal. throw a tube truss across the bottom of the HP30 and go. All your steering still bolts on, brakes, wheels, easier to find parts for IMO. plenty strong for what you are doing. unless you drop the money, you will still have LP front, and a small ring gear comparitivly to vehicle weight.

Waggy 44's are NOT hard to find in this area. I just threw away two waggy housings because no one wanted them. I Narrowed a HP44 down for my cherokee, easy peasy, and housing strength is MUCH better than a yota right outta the junkyard.
 

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NERD
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8,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Are the housings THAT weak? Even with trussing? I don't have an 8.8 yet, otherwise I'd probably have to cut down a HP44 anyway since it would be a closer match overall.

If you ever come across a drivers drop housing you're gonna throw away, PM me :D I see a few on craigslist all the time, but very few of them are 80+ drivers drop, even less are 4.10s which is what I prefer.
 

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Run the FJ80 front and Tacoma rear...bite the bullet and get the steering from Slee or build your own arms. In the long run its a much better axle than the Toy mini, D30 or D44. Even in STOCK form the 80 axle will hold up to 35s. Yes the steering is $$$ but in the long run the overbuilt 80 axle (stock form) will pay for itself after you break/rebuild/upgrade the D30 or Mini axle to be as good as an FJ80 front...or throw Long's in the 80 and don't look back.
 

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i had two housings up on NWW for quite a long time. Both Drivers drop. now they are dumpster drop. i would have given them away. You need to pay attention better.

:flipoff2:
 

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NERD
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Discussion Starter #19
i had two housings up on NWW for quite a long time. Both Drivers drop. now they are dumpster drop. i would have given them away. You need to pay attention better.

:flipoff2:
I just got here in Aug, bought the Jeep in Sept, so I haven't been back in the game long. I can't believe you threw them away :eek: So many TJ and YJ owners here.

Run the FJ80 front and Tacoma rear...bite the bullet and get the steering from Slee or build your own arms. In the long run its a much better axle than the Toy mini, D30 or D44. Even in STOCK form the 80 axle will hold up to 35s. Yes the steering is $$$ but in the long run the overbuilt 80 axle (stock form) will pay for itself after you break/rebuild/upgrade the D30 or Mini axle to be as good as an FJ80 front...or throw Long's in the 80 and don't look back.
:smokin: that's my way of thinking. I hear lots of people giving me feedback on them and how it will nickle and dime me. I don't see how that's any different than a regular axle swap :laughing: Even bolt in shit, like HP30, has unexpected shit happen.

I think I can run 37s on the FJ80/Taco setup - STOCK. Then when I want to bump up to fourdees I can do this if I still can't or don't want to step up to 60s and I'm having trouble with the 8" ring gear. I see this as a badass budget big stick setup with the possibility to run big meats with Longs and some work.
 

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If you are plannin on going to 40's Why not do it once instead of rebuilding 2-3 times.

If you want to stay narrow why not a C&C 14 bolt out of a dually? Dime a dozen. OH yeah and they are 63wms~ 3 inches wider than a stock dana 30/35.

You can setup the gears yourself just like a 9inch pretty much. Or maybe even find one with a detroit/4.56 gears.

I have no solutoin for a front axle of equal strength for 40's for cheap.

Rock on!
 
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