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Discussion Starter #1
So the newest Ultra 4 letter has encouraged us to start a drivers union. This is the only form of Motorsports I have ever been a part of but I know that other forms have these unions set up.

What do we need to do to set this up?

How does it work?

Pirate 4x4 Mods, could we clean out the competitor only forum, or start a new Ultra 4 competitor only forum that you would only gain access to with membership to the Ultra 4 union?

Looking forward to this, and seeing how we can make our sport that much better.
 

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Pirate 4x4 Mods, could we clean out the competitor only forum, or start a new Ultra 4 competitor only forum that you would only gain access to with membership to the Ultra 4 union?

The people that can make that decision are on the Rubicon this week. I've alerted them, for when they get back.
 

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I'm unclear on the value that a union will provide. I've re-read Dave's email.

I've been involved in U4 as a co-driver for awhile and just recently as a driver.

My experience with unions has been to help groups from being treated unfairly. Most have union fees. What's the value here to the teams?

Thanks...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I'm unclear on the value that a union will provide. I've re-read Dave's email.

I've been involved in U4 as a co-driver for awhile and just recently as a driver.

My experience with unions has been to help groups from being treated unfairly. Most have union fees. What's the value here to the teams?

Thanks...
Here is what Dave said, just so it is here. There needs to be a way to for drivers to express their concerns in private, not on social media that makes everyone involved look bad.

Pick a few racers from each class to represent their class for people to come too, especially new racers that may be intimidated. People who can communicate well with Ultra 4. Maybe even a few non racers, John Goodby came to my mind.

There has been a couple issues this year at races that it would have been good to be able to discuss with racers only on how to change them from happening again.


"As with everything else in life, growth comes with growing pains. I completely botched the competition yellow at Stampede. Scoring races across multiple heats has proved to be a challenge. We reached for the stars with our National Championship Race in Vegas and lost the land again. But perhaps the biggest adjustment has been in regards to my personal interaction with the teams. At the OG race, I obviously knew every competitor. That didn't change much for the first few years and even when we had 100 cars at KOH, I felt comfortable that I knew most every team personally. It was easy to communicate. If there was a problem, I could walk to your pit, we would sit down and talk about it. Even if it got rough, it was still 'among family.' The unprecedented growth of our family has caused a fairly significant communication gap. To put it bluntly, my style, or lack thereof is more effective if I've known you for 10 years, competed against you, built this family with you. It doesn't translate to the new guy who is wondering why I am yelling at them at their first race.



There are two opportunities for change. First, I will continue to work harder to be more patient (stop laughing). I have tried to facilitate that with hiring more top notch staff to carry the workload. Second, and perhaps even more difficult, is the formation of a Drivers Union or Advisory Board. I was a staunch supporter of this concept eight years ago when we tried it in Rock Crawling. I support it completely now. Here is my challenge to you as a collective. Don't use this opportunity for political infighting and a formal complaint process. Use it to truly change and grow. Let's work together on how to grow our sport, engage spectators, service partners. Let's develop a plan to merchandise your likenesses and YOUR brand. Let's take the next step of making you the heroes you are. My only concern with a union is actually losing your voice. Any one of you can pick up the phone and call me 24 hours a day. I don't want to lose that. It will help to have a buffer , but I don't want to lose contact with 'the family'.



You all need to drive this evolution. I will support you unconditionally, but it needs be your creation. I look forward to the changes to come."
 

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Why a union? How about an elected drivers board? A way to pass concerns and suggestions through a group of drivers to the promoters.
 

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I attend more than my fair share of Meetings and this is what works for most.

Election of the board
Working Committee formation
Schedule Meetings (During each Race would probably be the easiest)

Meetings (recommend Robert’s Rules of Order)
Board defines Committees goals

Committees would hash our details and bring to Board
Committees could be base geographically to insure they can meet
Board would present to Ultra4

Lessons Learned (is alway interesting)
Vendors Presentation - 2 Max per meeting 30 minutes (we let them pay for meetings food and drink for the chance to present to us)

Open Discussions for all
This is where issues and ideas are brought to the Organization


There is a lot more than above. This is only what I took from the top of my head.
 

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  • call it an advisory board as it's meant to advise u4 a union just sounds like a bitch fest and let's keep it positive. (not a union fan)
  • have multiple representatives from each class (if there are enough to warrant it)
  • make sure to represent each region in your advisory board
  • make sure the representatives have access to U4 staff (this will obviously take cooperation from U4)
  • make sure whomever is elected to represent will be at each race (possibly for just their specific region?)
 

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Is there going to be beer served at these meetings? I'm in!

Idea;
Try to get someone from every state or designated area to sit on the board. I know in AZ, we all know each other, we recreate together and share similar businesses. It would be easy to have one rep as the voice for AZ racers. I know Cali will need more then one and I'm sure there are states that will be combined with others but you get the idea, Drivers in close proximity can unite for one voice.

I like meetings with orsdevours too!
 

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Union, board or whatever, I think it's just semantics. This group would also deal with racing issues like course cutting and other rule violations. It takes it out of Dave's hands which is good for him and us. It would also give us a chance to educate our new drivers on course etiquette and give them somewhere to ask questions about the inner workings of Ultra 4. Done correctly, a lot of good for everyone could come from this.
 

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Union, board or whatever, I think it's just semantics. This group would also deal with racing issues like course cutting and other rule violations. It takes it out of Dave's hands which is good for him and us. It would also give us a chance to educate our new drivers on course etiquette and give them somewhere to ask questions about the inner workings of Ultra 4. Done correctly, a lot of good for everyone could come from this.
I think course cutting, etc. would still be on Dave. He's the race promoter and he's in charge of keeping the racing legit.


Is there going to be beer served at these meetings? I'm in!

Idea;
Try to get someone from every state or designated area to sit on the board. I know in AZ, we all know each other, we recreate together and share similar businesses. It would be easy to have one rep as the voice for AZ racers. I know Cali will need more then one and I'm sure there are states that will be combined with others but you get the idea, Drivers in close proximity can unite for one voice.

I like meetings with orsdevours too!
I'm thinking the board would need to be much smaller than that. 5-7 people max in the end. Otherwise, nothing will ever get accomplished. In the grand scheme of things we're talking about a few hundred drivers total, a large advisory board would be pointless.
 

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NASCAR doesnt have a drivers union, I think that says something.....

My thought would be an as needed AdHoc stroll through the paddock (actual or online) or drivers meeting to voice concern would be better served.


Competitor forum here needs a revamped with a Moderator that would actively keep the membership list reasonablely up to date. Thats still a problem because issues tend to leak to the promoter before the issue has been fully vetted and options laid out. Then said promoter flys off handle.
 

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Competitor forum here needs a revamped with a Moderator that would actively keep the membership list reasonablely up to date. Thats still a problem because issues tend to leak to the promoter before the issue has been fully vetted and options laid out. Then said promoter flys off handle.
I can volunteer for that part at least. I'm pretty well out of U4 racing for the time being otherwise.
 

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I like the idea, as a 1st year Ultra 4 team but long time off road competitor I have seen a few things that would rub some newcomers the wrong way. In for updates.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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I think a private online forum is a good place to start. The drivers' union, advisory board, council, etc, sounds like a good idea, but to be objective the members need to be elected by fellow drivers, otherwise it will be dominated by the "Golden Rule" (whoever has the gold makes the rules). Even then it will be difficult for driver representatives to be 100% objective since each driver will naturally be biased towards their region (East vs West), sponsors, and rules to fit their car (for limited classes).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think course cutting, etc. would still be on Dave. He's the race promoter and he's in charge of keeping the racing legit.
Yeah but it would be good to have this elected group available like a CRB when course cutting, timing infractions, etc happen.

I can volunteer for that part at least. I'm pretty well out of U4 racing for the time being otherwise.
That would be awesome, and I agree would be a great place to start so we could nominate people to put on this board.

A union is usually a separate entity.
Gotcha, I was just using the wording that the Ultra 4 letter sent out.:)
 

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We already have a competitors only forum, and no one ever uses it. Honestly, Dave has always done a good job, IMO, at listening to concerns/complaints, and giving reasoning for backing his decision, so the private forum isn't always needed, but.... I feel if there is a concern/complaint, it should not be done in a public forum/area. It should be done in private to keep a professional image.
 
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