[crawlinTJ]

After spending countless hours searching, bookmarking, reading and searching again, I have come to some conclusions on what Waggy D44 I want in my TJ....I don't know!

Reason being, is the contradictory statements by people on the different years of Waggy 44s.

Through reading well over 30 threads this is what I have come up with:

Driverside Drop:
1980-1991

Vacuum Disconnect
1980-1981: NO
1982-1986: Some have said yes, some have said no.
1987-1981: NO

Therefore there are discripancies into what everyone is saying (or thinks) are the years that may or may not have had a vacuum discconect. Obviously I know that I do not want one with it.

So that would mean look for an 80-81 (hard to find so far in my junkyard searches) or, look for an 1987-1991 (easier to find, I know of a few now)....but they all want around $500 for the new years.

But here's the catch.
According to Warn's website, they only have an application for Wagoneer front inner shafts from 1980-1984:

http://products.warn.com/warn.nsf/pages/Truck.AppChart.FrontAxles.InnerShaft.html

and they only have an application for Wagoneer front outer shafts from 1974-1983.

http://products.warn.com/warn.nsf/pages/Truck.AppChart.FrontAxles.OuterShaft.html

So that brings to the conclusion of only have two years to look for 1980 and 1981....which really narrows the choices and oppurtunities down.

I have not started my research on the ford D44s yet.

Anyone have any thoughts? :beer:

 

[BadAZYj]

6060606060606060606060606060:flipoff2: Sorry Dan, Good luck though

 

[BobBarry]

The only years with the vacuum disconnect were the '83 and '84 Selectrac-equipped trucks. With '85 they went with the shift-on-the-fly system, which used the constantly-engaged hubs and differential.

Those Warn's kits will fit any '80-'91 Wagoneer or narrow-track Cherokee front non-disconnect D44. There is also one for the '74-'79 axles with the passenger-side drop. Warn only lists up to '84 because of laziness, basically; the words was that they didn't bother to verify that it would fit the later truck axles.

The axles didn't change, so that shafts will fit.

 

[ColoYJ]

The shafts for 80-82 are the same as ones in a 87-91.
Warn has never verified that the are the same shafts so they dont list them on their chart.

They are the same though. I have a 82 44 and my spare 87 shafts are the same.

 

[Po' riggity]

6060606060606060606060606060:flipoff2: Sorry Dan, Good luck though

Dan,
why upgrade to a 44 if you are breaking the 297 joint now? It doesn't do any good to "upgrade" to a 44 with the same sized U joint. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can you make sense out of it for me?
Scott

 

[crawlinTJ]

CTMs and warn shafts. yes a 60 is nice. but all off my u-joint breakages were the result of the cap walking out after a c-clip fell out (even the ones with tack welded caps). full-circle clips will go a long way.

hi-steer.

lower than 4.88s

bigger brakes

go to 5 on 5.5

selectable hubs with warns

stronger shafts

bigger r & p

i'm not competing, but my driving skills have far surpased my equipment....so the upgrade is necessary. will be driven on the road for a while, and a 44 with ctms/warns will be fine for 37s...as i won't run a swamper on the road anymore, and it'll be a while for the bigger than 37 radials come down.

if i break a ctm, then they are warrantied. if i break a shaft, then they are warrantied.

putting a 60 in a tj is within my fabricating capabilities....but just overkill for a 4-banger and 37s.

if I do go to a 60 in a year or so, i shouldn't have a problem selling a built tj D44 ready to bolt in.

i know that 60s60s60s60s60s is the mantra here...but for me, it's just not pratical.

 

[crawlinTJ]

The shafts for 80-82 are the same as ones in a 87-91.
Warn has never verified that the are the same shafts so they dont list them on their chart.

They are the same though. I have a 82 44 and my spare 87 shafts are the same.

According to Warn, when I called:

"Jeep changed stuff on those years, and our shafts won't work."

So you think getting a newer year (if I can find one at a decent price) will be ok?

 

[WillyPete]

warn is stupid and lazy. an FSJ d44 is an FSJ d44. just avoid the 83-84 axles from wagoneers and cherokees with selectrac (commandtracn is ok) and you'll be golden.

 

[BobBarry]

According to Warn, when I called:

"Jeep changed stuff on those years, and our shafts won't work."

So you think getting a newer year (if I can find one at a decent price) will be ok?

Well, here's what DIDN'T change:

* Axle width
* Shaft length and diameter
* Spline count
* Seal design
* Hub design

They did change from a spring to a spacer-sleeve in the hub at some point before 1988, but that's about it.

Their response sounds like a typical CYA blowoff from a salesman.

 

[Sundowner]

why are you fixated on a driver's drop axle?

what stops you from going pass side and going with an UNflipped d300?

 

[Trango]

Yeah dude, it's totally obvious. Instead of taking a few more hours finding something that is easily adaptable for your setup, why not just settle for a marginally more common axle that requires serious exhaust, tcase, crossmember and probably driveshaft mods? Hooooohkay. La pipa para el cracko: put it down son.

Seriously mate, get into a yard and you'll find what you're looking for, lickety split no shit. You have a year range to guide you - now use your jedi powers and find yourself an axle. All you gotta do is go pull a beast that is Driver's Drop and doesn't have that weird aquarium-grade tubing bullshit sticking out of some regrettable center disconnect thing. Last time I pulled a waggy axle, I had a raging hangover, replete with searing red laser beam eyes and breath that nearly killed a dog (Great American Beer Fest on an empty stomach, Danger Danger Young Will Robinson, it's like the century club but with aid stations). It still only took us 2 hours of fiendish wrenching (addendum: with breaks for dry heaves, I think there was a red bull intermission) to find and retrieve the essence of the waggy: the je ne sais pas, the new hotness, the Front Axle my boy!

There is no voodoo to the waggy axle, except where they tried to turn it into an ersatz transfer case with that dumbass selectrac or whatever mode makes engine vacuum a requirement for function. You can find a normal DSD waggy 44. Go!

Caffeinated beyond medical help,
Bob

 

[Sundowner]

Yeah dude, it's totally obvious. Instead of taking a few more hours finding something that is easily adaptable for your setup, why not just settle for a marginally more common axle that requires serious exhaust, tcase, crossmember and probably driveshaft mods? Hooooohkay. La pipa para el cracko: put it down son.

there ARE advantages:
no sye required
gear drvien case
a real neutral
easy twin sticks
cheaper/easier low gears.

so you gotta make a few adjustments to the exhaust and crossmember..
isnt that just the WORST?
:flipoff2:

 

[Po' riggity]

CTMs and warn shafts. yes a 60 is nice. but all off my u-joint breakages were the result of the cap walking out after a c-clip fell out (even the ones with tack welded caps). full-circle clips will go a long way.

hi-steer.

lower than 4.88s

bigger brakes

go to 5 on 5.5

selectable hubs with warns

stronger shafts

bigger r & p

i'm not competing, but my driving skills have far surpased my equipment....so the upgrade is necessary. will be driven on the road for a while, and a 44 with ctms/warns will be fine for 37s...as i won't run a swamper on the road anymore, and it'll be a while for the bigger than 37 radials come down.

if i break a ctm, then they are warrantied. if i break a shaft, then they are warrantied.

putting a 60 in a tj is within my fabricating capabilities....but just overkill for a 4-banger and 37s.

if I do go to a 60 in a year or so, i shouldn't have a problem selling a built tj D44 ready to bolt in.

i know that 60s60s60s60s60s is the mantra here...but for me, it's just not pratical.

Dan,
Makes sense to me now, I wasnt aware that it was the clips popping on you. I just wanted to try and make sense of it, I wasn't in any way bashing your axle choice. Hell, Im still running my HP 30 up front, so I can't say ANYTHING. And to top it off, Im still running 260x joints.
Scott

 

[BadAZYj]

I was running the same setup as Dan, only in my YJ. I had 37" Mtrs, and axles with 760x joints with fenderwashers tacked on to keep the caps from walking. This was all fine and dandy until I started running the more "extreme" trails and put my 4:1 case in. After breaking 5 axles within a couple of months I decided I HAD to do something, I considered Warns and CTms, but that alone is 900 bucks, and to run Warn outers on a 30 you gotta get the hub kit another 800 bucks, and the steering still sucks, but for another 700 I can get DEOs High steer kit. La di da, I now have 2400 in a very highly polished turd. I considered a 44, but knowing I wanted to run at least 38.5" SXs, I quickly shot down that idea and just decided to go along with the pirate mantra and run 60s. I couldnt be happier Its a great feeling to know you have that beef under there, and in just the month Ive had em, my driving style has changed considerrably and I no longer have to "wheel scared". Oh and I have less than 3k in my front RCD60 with 5.38s, Detroit, New shafts with 35 spline outers, warn hubs, Gm outers and brakes and Rock Equipment High steer arms.

However, If I planned on keeping my Mt/Rs I woulda really considered the 44.

 

[crawlinTJ]

Well guess what I found today!!! A front waggy 44 from an 86...for $200. Which I think is a good deal.

The only thing coming off the pumpkin (at the very top) is a small rubber hose, with what looks like a plastic fitting. Now although I've never seen a picture of the infamous vacuum unit, I have read that is is a big box thing on the diff....this just looks like a breather line. Plus everyone says the 86 shouldn't have a vac. disconnect.

So is $200 a pretty good price?

Scott, you can still make it tomorrow right?
Should be easy, the thing doesn't even have a motor!! Jack it up and pull it out (still has wheels and tires, so it should roll).

BTW, the guys wants $200 for the rear 44 as well. What does everyone think about that? Yes, I have a TJ D44, but I want leafs in the rear, which leaves (no pun intended) me with either cutting my brackets off (which sounds like a sin, considering the TJ D44 demand) or get one out of something else.

If I pull the rear, then I'll have matching bolt pattern, and won't have to deal with having new shafts made right away. And I think I can sell a TJ D44 for more than $200 anyways, right?

 

[BadAZYj]

Yeah man, Just Pm me the address and Ill meet you there. The Vacuum disco looks sorta like a horn, what you described sounds like a breather. Did it have manual hubs?? If so, its definitely not a disco axle. 200 is alot for a 44 rear, I paid less than that for my HD 60 rear(3.5" tubes, big spindles for 35 spline) I bet we can go to the yard next to ecology and get you a rear 44 for 98 bucks. plus, Id just stick with coils if I were you...but.... I'm not 200 sounds good for a front though.

 

[crawlinTJ]

Just to be able to double check when I go tomorrow, does anyone know exactly where the disconnect is, and what it looks like on a waggy 44? Any pics?

I just want to be sure.

 

[BadAZYj]

I know what it is Dan, I just cant explain it. Ill check it out before we pull it

 

[kidwired]

why are you fixated on a driver's drop axle?

what stops you from going pass side and going with an UNflipped d300?

Have you heard of ANYONE mating a D300 to an AX5?


Bueller?


Bueller?

 

[crawlinTJ]

Have you heard of ANYONE mating a D300 to an AX5?


Bueller?


Bueller?

Ding ding ding...tell em' what he's won Bob!!! We have a winner.

As of a few months ago, no one was making an adaptor. But I do not know the reason. If I can get a 21 spline D300 input, and the only trick is an adaptor, then no big deal. I'll make one.