[Old Scout]

I'm going to be doing some overhead/vertical welding with my MM210. A good buddy told me I should try some dual shield wire.

He said to get a spool of ESAB dual shield 70 ultra plus. I can't find it on the web.

Anybody have any experience with this stuff? He said it was kind of pricey.

 

[98TJames]

Go to http://www.esabna.com/

type "70 Ultra" in the search and enjoy.

James

 

[uglyscout]

When I get to play at my buddies garage he runs the Dual Shiled R-70 Ultra . I think he 'borrow' it from work in big azz rolls. I know they use 500lb barrels at his work so I am sure they don't notice a little roll missing now and again.
It welds sweet and gets some serious penetration even in the hands of a total rookie.

Try your local welding supply dude - Airgas carries Esab.

Or try Esabs site, they have a distributor list:

Esab online

 

[Dirk]

It is just a basic flux core wire I think all gas shielded flux core gets awesome penetration ,and cool looks. Hobart makes some BADASS fluxcore wire , just incase the esab stuff is too expensive.

 

[Old Scout]

It is just a basic flux core wire I think all gas shielded flux core gets awesome penetration ,and cool looks. Hobart makes some BADASS fluxcore wire , just incase the esab stuff is too expensive.

It is NOT the regular old E71TGS wire!

 

[The Fleckster]

Triple 7 wire

Old Scout,

You ever see any of the stuff I fab and sell? If its 3/8" or bigger i always weld it with Dual Shield wire. I just looked in my Miller 250X and the spool said Triple 7 and was E71T but in big letters it says Triple 7. The shit is badass. It flows good, doesnt spatter much and is a penatrating Mo Fo wire. Now the weld will give off way more heat than hard wire so try not to burn up the Leather Gloves too Bad. Another thing is i weld it with straight C02 gas.
Now the regular hard wire comes in about 45 pound spools for like $35 and this stuff is 39 pound spools and is like $49 or so. Its almost doulble the price per pound that hard wire is.

You will love the stuff.

 

[weldpro]

Old Scout ,
What are you planning on using it for exactly? Thickness wise?
Anyways I'll share my experience. When I still had the mobile arm of my business I had a job which I was welding 2 inch cutting pockets onto 3 inch plate on a very large trencher. Well this job started as a stick job (7018 90% vertical) but being a one man show for the most part , and the operaters breaking this fawker up like nothing made me have to be 100% faster than I could do with the stinger. Considering that we needed code quality welds , and speed was essential - we went with a dual sheild specifically Lincolns' Outersheild 71M (AWS E71T-1)in a 1/16 dia using Ar25% balance CO2. This stuff was like nothing I had ever used before! Super easy , super fast , virtually no splatter, excellent bead contour , but was VERY smoky much worse than any normal flux core I have been around.
I will agree with Fleckster that 3/8 is probably the starting point at which you "might" want to start trying this stuff. I personally feel that it would probably be wasted on anything below 3/8 since hardwire works well in the 3/8 & below department anyhow.
Now as far as being able to get it. I called Ram (your local supplier, and a kick ass one at that!) , and they did have .035 in smaller spools but since I was running the 1/16 they wanted me to buy a pallet!!!!! So I brought in a bunch to my local airgas , and bought many a spools weekly for about three months.

OK I just looked through Rams catalog , and found this:

Mc Kay (part of ITW if you did not know) speed-alloy 71-V
.045 dia. 33lb spool for $69.96 (seems abit high)
88,000 psi tensile
75,000 psi yeild
***in case you did not know this wire does have slag! Not quite as thick as say 7018 but not nearly as thin as Lincolns NR211mp***
hope this helps,
Richard

 

[YotaRunner]

Old Scout ,
***in case you did not know this wire does have slag! Not quite as thick as say 7018 but not nearly as thin as Lincolns NR211mp***
hope this helps,
Richard

I've been running the NR211/.035 wire for a long time now, but I think I reached it's limits.
So my question is can I run either of this stuff through my machine with proper sized tips and not have any issues. I'm also running gas....?

Sort of a newbie question, but I didn't know anything about welding before I got my little 125lincoln. all self tought, and I have no idea if I can or should run anything else through it???

It's worked great so far but I find myself doing more technical over head stuff, like mentioned in the first post and it's a PITA at times. This better wire should help correct???

 

[weldpro]

I've been running the NR211/.035 wire for a long time now, but I think I reached it's limits.
So my question is can I run either of this stuff through my machine with proper sized tips and not have any issues. I'm also running gas....?

Sort of a newbie question, but I didn't know anything about welding before I got my little 125lincoln. all self tought, and I have no idea if I can or should run anything else through it???

It's worked great so far but I find myself doing more technical over head stuff, like mentioned in the first post and it's a PITA at times. This better wire should help correct???

I would not bother trying to use dual sheild in your 125. If I were you I would stick to the NR211mp which you are already using. You said you are already running gas? I'm guessing that you have alreadt ran hardwire , and you are not saying that you use gas with the flux core right!? Anyways depending on the thickness of the material you could run .030 for hardwire with a Co2/Ar mix which would work very well out of position.
You can pm me if you have any other q's.
Richard

 

[redrangie]

OS,
I have run nr 211p with gas, and it does penetrate really really well. Smokey as all hell, but it cuts the mustard so to speak. I have not tried the specific dually wire, and will probably soon.

I can vouch for the heat thing. You need to really watch for distorsion with it on thinner material.

j

 

[weldpro]

OS,
I have run nr 211p with gas,

j

Have I missed something? How come you use gas with Nr211mp?
I could envision how it "may" change the arc characteristic (by cooling it possibly) but I cant figure out what would be the real benefit since it is a true flux core wire. Did someone suggest that you try this?
Richard

 

[EBSTEVE]

E7IT-1 is what I used to get certified for dual shield, it welds allot like 7018 but penetrates way better than a mig ever could. Get a heat shield for over your glove if you are going to be doing allot of it.

 

[redrangie]

Have I missed something? How come you use gas with Nr211mp?
I could envision how it "may" change the arc characteristic (by cooling it possibly) but I cant figure out what would be the real benefit since it is a true flux core wire. Did someone suggest that you try this?
Richard

Yes, someone suggested it, and I gave it a shot. I am not a experienced as you, but I think the terminology that I am looking for is that the arc was more controllable? It was on a low voltage machine, and it allowed for a smoother more controllable arc.

j

 

[ashmanjeepXJ]

E7IT-1 wire for double shield, use c20 or c25 gass, good for 3/8in or thicker stuff.

For this double shield set would would you run EP or EN, electro posative?

Mig solid wire with gass c25, EN
Mig fluxcore no gass, EP

Thanks,

 

[joefear7]

Have I missed something? How come you use gas with Nr211mp?
I could envision how it "may" change the arc characteristic (by cooling it possibly) but I cant figure out what would be the real benefit since it is a true flux core wire. Did someone suggest that you try this?
Richard

Rutile -based flux is acidic, T-1. It produces a smooth stable arc and a refractive high temperature slag for out-of-postion welding
Some rutile-based electrodes allow for the addition of shielding gas. With the weld being protected partially by the sheilding gas, more elements can be added to the flux, which produces welds with the best of both flux (sheilding) systems, high-quality welds in all positions.

but like i said you have to check to make sure the flux core wire your useing is sutible to use for gas. If it is i say use it because youll find it makes a really kick-butt weld ,penetration wise and aestetically.

 

[weldpro]

Rutile -based flux is acidic, T-1. It produces a smooth stable arc and a refractive high temperature slag for out-of-postion welding
Some rutile-based electrodes allow for the addition of shielding gas. With the weld being protected partially by the sheilding gas, more elements can be added to the flux, which produces welds with the best of both flux (sheilding) systems, high-quality welds in all positions.

but like i said you have to check to make sure the flux core wire your useing is sutible to use for gas. If it is i say use it because youll find it makes a really kick-butt weld ,penetration wise and aestetically.

Joe even though this is supposed to be a thread just about ExxT-1 . (for which all of what you wrote apllies) My comments (that you were replying to) are referring to Exxt-11(lincolns NR211_MP for brand reference) which is "supposed to be completely self sheilded". I have personally never tried this (with gas) or heard of any company man recommending it. I suppose a email to Lincoln would be helpful so I think I'll go shoot one over to them.
Interesting topic here though.
Richard

 

[joefear7]

Joe even though this is supposed to be a thread just about ExxT-1 . (for which all of what you wrote apllies) My comments (that you were replying to) are referring to Exxt-11(lincolns NR211_MP for brand reference) which is "supposed to be completely self sheilded". I have personally never tried this (with gas) or heard of any company man recommending it. I suppose a email to Lincoln would be helpful so I think I'll go shoot one over to them.
Interesting topic here though.
Richard

Yea I noticed that after i posted I was talking more about wire specifically made for dual shield use. sorry about that. I do know that you do have to watch using a flux core wire with gas becuase the CO2 may aad more oxides than the flux is meant to de-oxidise there are alot of wires though that you can use with or without gas and like the t-5 wires and some of the T-G i believe. yea this is interesting though ill have to give the tech guys at lincoln a call

 

[weldpro]

Joe,
I did email them (lincoln) , and I am supposed to get a response within 48 hours. If you call the tech line or your rep let us know what they said. I almost bet we'll get two differnt answers!
Richard

 

[weldpro]

Mr. Stubbs,
My name is Mike Flagg and I am a senior applications
engineer with Lincoln
Electric.
In a nutshell, the arc is smoother, but the chemistry
changes. The
strength levels increase BUT the ductility decreases.
Because this wire
was not designed to be run this way, it does not meet any
AWS standards,
is not a qualified product to any AWS standards, and we do
not recommend
it be used with a gas shielding.


If you have any other questions, please e-mail me back at
[email protected] or call me @216-383-8847.
Thank you for
your inquiry and good luck with your project.

Best Regards,

Mike


***There you have it! I think most of the folks here that know about the standard ExxT-11 (remember that this has NOTHING to do with the origanal question about ExxT-1 which is a gas sheilded flux core wire!) could have guesses that using that type of wire with gas is a no-no.
Redrangie--you ought to adhere to this advise my friend.
Richard

 

[Chief yelling alot]

25/75 is all I use in my POS and it does over head just fine, just as easy as verticle