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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I've been dragging my heels for a long time getting a post together about how I did it, but thanks to a few people hounding me, I figured I getter done:flipoff2:

Basically I wanted more gearing and am a cheap SOB. T-cases are the obvious option, but I wanted something i had never seen before. The original setup was a 700r4/sm465. Problems arose with this setup which I will explain soon, and the setup was swapped for my new 465/465.

I'll go over everything quick, and if anyone needs anything clarified, let me know and i'll do my best.


First things first I needed a shaft to adapt the 4 speed to the auto. I took a 10 spline 4-speed input along with a np208 27 spline input to a buddy of mine and told him what I wanted. To make them work together he machined off the clutch input and pressed on a piece of DOM to bring up the O.D. of the input, which was then TIg welded. This was then Chucked up on the lathe and turned down to a press fit diameter for the female input of the 208. The two pieces where sweat fit together and chucked back up in the lathe to true them up before being TIG welded and slow cooled.







The OD of the old 208 input is slightly smaller than the ID of the input bearing, therefore it is all still capableof being disassembled and reassembled as before. The bearing retainer was then cut to the edge of the seal surface which allowed for the input shaft to fit through,but removed the seal. I welded a chunk of exhaust tubing onto the bearing retainer and used a seal that pounded in nice and sealed tight.



 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Next up was to mate the 2 transmissions together. I got 2 12x12" pieces of steel and had holes burned out of the center. then I threaded the one piece for studs at the corners and half way in between, and drilled corresponding holes into the other piece. I bolted a np208 adapter to the back of the 700r4 and drilled and tapped holes in the forward plate steel for the factory adapter to bolt to. I bolted the auto side of the assembly together followed by the 2nd haf of the adapter plate, then stood the tranny on it's bellhousing and slipped the 4 speed with the input shaft installed over top and into place. With the factory adapter and the 2 1" thick pieces of plate, I ended up approx. 1/8" from bottoming out the shafts. I used cork gasket in the end for a little for room on the end. Once everything was lined up, I marked and drilled the 2nd plate to bolt to the factory bellhousing bolt locations on the 4 speed.









 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
And the completed assembly.






Crawl ratio of 160ish:1 + whatever you allow for torque converter slip.
I wheeled this setup several times and drove it on the highway in overdrive quite a few times. It worked amazing on and off road.

However.........



The recurring issues I had would have been easily solved, but I missed my clutch
Basically the issues I had where based around the fact that in low gear I could break everything. The bolts which threaded into the aluminum tranny housing would back outeven locktighted and properly torqued, which dumped gallons of AtF everytime theyt did.. I tore up trans and motor mounts every time I put it in low gear, and could twist a D44 stub shaft in half.

To Solve it i needed stiffer mounts for the drivetrain, helicoiled trans housing, and a higher stall torque converter so it wasn't always "ON"


And for whoever says that there's no way the shaft would survive, I tested by doing several 4500rpm neutral drops in a 5500lb rig with a weled rear and 37's.

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Once I'd had my fill I decided to change things up.

4 speeds are cheap, plentiful and bullitproof. So I called my buddy and said "how bout round two"...:D

2wd 35 spline in the front, 4wd 10 spline in the rear(for now)
When trying ro figure out how to mate the 2 465's, I measured every shaft/yoke/ whatever I could get my hands on. When I took off the fixed yoke from the 2wd trans, i measured the inside dimension, and discovered that it was exacly .030" smaller than the OD of the seal surface on the input for the 2nd trans. So I had my buddy machine the yoke off until it was round, and press the yoke onto the input. It was chucked back up onto the lathe until it was true, and TIG welded.



 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Once again I needed to mate the transmissions together, so I assembled the trannies, and stoodDid themup on end once again.

Didn;t want another ghetto looking adapter that took up way too much room, so I built one to mimmick a factory adapter with my own bootyfab bering retainer. Next one I'll have machined for the bearing retainer, but thi one was made of scrap, and cost me nothing but time.



 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Bolted everything together and put it back in the truck.





I still have to upgrade the 10 spline rear, but that's just a matter of swapping my new input shaft onto another trans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Any one have any questions??:smokin: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


If there's specific pics or info you want, let me know and I'll see what I can dig up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
sm465/sm465/np205 assembled with adapters is around 400-450lbs?

And the man hours are absolutely staggering........everything is built in my head. No computer design, cnc, or anything of that nature.

******* Engineered all the way:smokin:
 

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weight wise thats not bad imo.

and ******* engineered is the best your build is insane i love it.

My dad quoted this when i was cutting my frame "Grab a beer the torch and pretend its your x girlfriend's head"

Lmfao .
 

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The first time I saw this done they put the manual first and then the auto since you didn't need a clutch to shift the auto. The really cool thing is shift them both into reverse and your crawl ratio is insane
 

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I'm stoked to see someone else doing this, I'm in the process of putting an sm465 with a landcuiser case(mated) in a divorced setup to my samurai trans. Becuase Im a cheap ass and think a 321:1 crawl would be fun!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That is fawkin sick!
How does round 2 work?
How long is it?
How much do you think you have into it?
There were a few threads in chev talk about this but everyone said the input on the second trans was gonna crap out, even with a 10 spline you havent had any problems?
Haven't wheeled the dual manuals yet, done a lot of street driving befoire I stripped done the rig. In an open lot, I could stand beside the truck, with both trannies in neutral, shift them into first one at a time, through the window (with the t-case in neutral) and continue to shift one of them through 2nd, 3rd and 4th, all through the window walking alongside.
Crawl is around 400:1 in reverse/reverse.

Cost wise, i paid $180 for the first shaft to be made, and $120 for the 2nd one, the trannies have all been picked up for $20 each or under,(I've got a collection going), and the steel is mostly scraps.
All said and done, averaged between the 2 setups, I'd say under $250 each.
The 700r4 messed up the tailhousing pretty good when the bolts cameloose, so for the next project(the wifes truck) I'm going to use the old input shaftfor a nv3500/sm465 setup.

I'll measure it up when I head outside today, it's long, but manageable.

As for the shaft, I don't see what everyones problem is with the strength....Guys have been putting welded output shafts in crawlboxs for years, which if you look at the math is twice the reduction(and twice the torque multiplication) as the input of the "reduction box" in mine. I think what partof the issue is that a lot of the setups i've seen befoer used a 10 spling style couple shaft, either with a clutch center welded in, or with a resplined 2nd input. That still puts the brunt of the force on the smallest part of the input. Mine is all welded to the 1st step below the bearing, which is about twice the size. I'm not gentle on my junk at all, if it breaks I'll put up carnage pics, but I wouldn't trade this for another setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The first time I saw this done they put the manual first and then the auto since you didn't need a clutch to shift the auto. The really cool thing is shift them both into reverse and your crawl ratio is insane
I didn't go that route because then i would have needed a clutch and a torque convertor. You;d have to deal with the slip on both of them, and the torque convetor would never spin fast enough to function properly. Whenever you shifted the manual into first, it would be as if the motor was idleng around 100rpms, which would mean with the manual in first, the auto would likely never even move, and that would defeat the entire purpose, of having a 7:1 reduction box.

I use to drive my old setup on the hiway to the trail at 65mph, at around 1500rpms, and it never complained.
 

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I didn't go that route because then i would have needed a clutch and a torque convertor. You;d have to deal with the slip on both of them, and the torque convetor would never spin fast enough to function properly. Whenever you shifted the manual into first, it would be as if the motor was idleng around 100rpms, which would mean with the manual in first, the auto would likely never even move, and that would defeat the entire purpose, of having a 7:1 reduction box.

I use to drive my old setup on the hiway to the trail at 65mph, at around 1500rpms, and it never complained.
You are probably right the one I saw used an old clutch flite that used a clutch instead of a torque converter
 

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cool, hopefully it all works out for you. I have a buddy that did that about 3 years ago, 465/465/205, worked pretty nice, but it twisted the input off the second tranny after only a few trips, and then he pulled the setup out.

I know another guy doing it right now with a 435/435/205, using a shaft just like yours, and it seems to be holding up though to the best of my knowledge.
 
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