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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I installed a 2005 dana 60 under the front of my 2005 Ford E350 using a Timberline vans conversion kit.
The truck is a Chinook, Concourse RV so it has dual rear wheels. The front dana 60 has the factory dually adapters on it
and i used the 2021 Dodge alcoa wheels with the 8x200mm lug pattern.

Everything installed with no issues or so it seemed, but the truck has death wobble now so bad that the truck is virtually useless over 30 mph. The axle is a 2005 came out of a low miles F-350 dually, 40K miles. The wheels are new takes offs from a 2021 dodge Ram dually pickup. Once i realized it had death wobble i started replaing everything even though the old parts are still good, simply because i didnt know what else to do.

Everything on it is brand new now with the exception of the unit bearings. Tierods, draglink, tracbar, stabilzer, shocks, brakes, swaybar links, alignment with 5 degrees of caster, BFG KO2 E rated tires, etc... all new, yet still has death wobble terrible.

Im going to replace the unit bearings with a freespin kit because i cant see spending $500 dollars each for unit bearings.
Can you guys give me some opinions on which kit is better and why? Dynatrac or Spyntec??
Im at my wits end with this thing, this will be my last purchase before i contact an attorney about this conversion kit. I say that because the truck can never be put back to twin I-beam now because you have to cut the cross member to clear the 4x4 axle. The truck is basically useless at this point and not safe to drive even in town.

If i cant get this resolved i will have to file a lawsuit to recover the cost of the entire vehicle since it is not safe to drive at all. I hate to say anything beyond that but this is a $40,000 truck and its useless at this point. Theres no point finishing the 4x4 conversion if i cant get this death wobble resolved.
 

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Rolling Mod
04 Wrangler Unlimited, 67 F100
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A freespin kit will not change your death wobble unless your current bearings are junk.
Have you tried a steering stabilizer. They help compensate for less than perfect components. Also they are cheaper.
 

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blatant asshole
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Death wobles and bfg's strike again.


Have you cycled the tire positions yet?
Sure the rims arent bent?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
A freespin kit will not change your death wobble unless your current bearings are junk.
Have you tried a steering stabilizer. They help compensate for less than perfect components. Also they are cheaper.
Stabilizers are nothing more than a bandaid. Trust me a stabilizer is not going to get rid of this death wobble. It isnt some minor wobble that only occurs at certain speeds or certain bumps. The wobble is so severe that it completely destroyed the trac bar mounting bracket that came in the kit. I had to purchase a second bracket because the original was bent so bad it could not be repaired. It has a fox steering stabilizer on it already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Death wobles and bfg's strike again.


Have you cycled the tire positions yet?
Sure the rims arent bent?
I bought the BFG tires after the death wobble showed its ugly face. The wheels came with brand new tires. They were new take offs from a 2021 Dodge Ram 3500 dually pickup. They arent used wheels from a salvage yard.
I replaced the NEXUS tires thinking perhaps the sidewalls were to flimsy for the Chinook. Nothing changed with the BFG tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Tomorrow im going to put a dial indicator on it and check the runout on the dually adapters, unit bearings, and wheels.
I have adjustable lowers on it so i can adjust the caster myself but nothing helps. I took it in to have it aligned and sat in the shop watching the readout on the computer as the guy set the caster to 5 degrees. It still death wobbled on the way home. So i disconnected the lowers and tried less caster, then tried more caster to no avail.

All of the brackets for the kit are welded to the frame and the axle so there is nothing loose on it. I replaced my fox shocks with some new Bilsteins, no change. Installed the swaybar with new end links, no change.

Im hoping tomorrow the dial indicator gives me some clues because im at my wits end. I cant just keep throwing money at it. Obviously im already several thousand dollars into it just trying to get the death wobble to go away and i still have to get another transmission and transfercase installed before im finished. My budget is being wasted trying to get this front axle resolved.
 

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blatant asshole
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What about toe ?

How are they balanced? Powder or weights?

Hub pilot sizes match the wheels?

Pics or link to the 4x4 kit?

Something dumb as shit but are you sure the hubs are unlocked? Just turning the dial or the dash button doesnt mean theyre unlocked.

Ujoint good and greased? A locked ujoint and a engaged hub can do some serious shit.

Didnt see balljoints on your parts list.
 

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Death wobble is usually related to lack of caster angle. Check your caster. If you have good bump stops you could remove the springs so the van sits much lower which usually improves the caster angle on a radius arm suspension. Then take a test drive on the bump stops and see if the problem has gone.
If lack of caster is the problem then get some caster correction bushes or turn the knuckles to get more caster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Yes the dually adapters fit the wheels properly. They were machined specifically to fit the dodge ram center bore which is 1mm smaller than the ford wheels. Of course both trucks utilize the 8x200mm lug pattern as it is a dually, even though the unit bearings are 8x170mm.

Yes i checked the hubs long ago to insure they spun freely. I unlocked the hubs and placed a pry bar threw the ujoints and then spun the wheels to make sure they were unlocked. The Dodge wheels have 6mm less back spacing than the fords which is why i used them. The Dodge wheel has 136mm offset and the ford wheels use 142mm offset. I wouldnt think 6mm of offset would cause this issue.

The reason for using the Dodge Ram wheels is the offset. Its a non-issue on SRW vans, however on the dually chassis trucks there is very little clearance between the rear tires and the leaf springs. The F-350 wheels simply wont work without a spacer between the wheel and the hub on the rear due to the amount of wheel offset on the ford rims.

Running a rear spacer would be dangerous imo, and it would push the tires beyond the quarter panel lip considerably. Not a look i am after.

Heres the link to the kit, i ordered mine with adjustable lower 4 link arms so i can adjust caster without messing with the bushings. The bushings are dedicated to camber only. Standard 4x4 Conversion Kit Ford E-Series Gen 4 (1992-2014)

The wheels are balanced with weights.

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bicycle part Machine Auto part
Automotive tire Hood Automotive lighting Tread Automotive design
 

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blatant asshole
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Have you had some one rock the steering wheel back and forth while you waatch the front axle and steering?

I really dont like hiems for street rigs but the angle and length on the panhards on the site look good, is yours the same way?
 

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Try more caster and see what happens before you buy anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Yes mine is identical to the ones on the website, only difference is my swaybar isnt as big in diameter. The tracbar is the only thing that has heim joints. I can replace those with a bushing style when these wear out. Course it will take a long time to wear them out not being able to drive it.

jbt, i appreciate your thoughts but the caster has been tried at multiple settings none of which helped in the least.
Caster was the very first thing we looked at after replacing tires. Once the lowers were adjusted and set to 5 degrees at the shop it gave me a reference point. Once i was home i was able to disconnect the lowers and just count the number of turns i made from the 5 degree setting.

I tried more caster, then more caster, then more caster. That didnt work so i tried less, and less and less which also did not help. Then i returned them to the 5 degree position.
 

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I installed a 2005 dana 60 under the front of my 2005 Ford E350 using a Timberline vans conversion kit.
The truck is a Chinook, Concourse RV so it has dual rear wheels. The front dana 60 has the factory dually adapters on it
and i used the 2021 Dodge alcoa wheels with the 8x200mm lug pattern.

Everything installed with no issues or so it seemed, but the truck has death wobble now so bad that the truck is virtually useless over 30 mph. The axle is a 2005 came out of a low miles F-350 dually, 40K miles. The wheels are new takes offs from a 2021 dodge Ram dually pickup. Once i realized it had death wobble i started replaing everything even though the old parts are still good, simply because i didnt know what else to do.

Everything on it is brand new now with the exception of the unit bearings. Tierods, draglink, tracbar, stabilzer, shocks, brakes, swaybar links, alignment with 5 degrees of caster, BFG KO2 E rated tires, etc... all new, yet still has death wobble terrible.

Im going to replace the unit bearings with a freespin kit because i cant see spending $500 dollars each for unit bearings.
Can you guys give me some opinions on which kit is better and why? Dynatrac or Spyntec??
Im at my wits end with this thing, this will be my last purchase before i contact an attorney about this conversion kit. I say that because the truck can never be put back to twin I-beam now because you have to cut the cross member to clear the 4x4 axle. The truck is basically useless at this point and not safe to drive even in town.

If i cant get this resolved i will have to file a lawsuit to recover the cost of the entire vehicle since it is not safe to drive at all. I hate to say anything beyond that but this is a $40,000 truck and its useless at this point. Theres no point finishing the 4x4 conversion if i cant get this death wobble resolved.
What part of the world are you in? Likely the DW is a product of something being over looked.
is there a good old school front end shop where you are? Ot just some jackrabbit with an alignment rack but someone who truly understands how steering and suspension geometry works?
 

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I'm not saying this guy is the expert, but all his advice can feed into your solution:


It's not the swaybar. If your suspension is tight and aligned having the hubs locked shouldn't be a problem either.

Something mentioned in this article on motortrend.com that you haven't mentioned is your steering box. If it wasn't recently rebuilt, I'd do that. The jiggle test in the video might help you diagnose a loose box. Your donor Chinook wasn't new when you started the project and you didn't say how many miles are on it and the rest of your steering from the drop-link up to the loose nut behind the wheel. 😲

Looks like it's going to be sweet once you get it sorted out.
 

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I installed a 2005 dana 60 under the front of my 2005 Ford E350 using a Timberline vans conversion kit.
The truck is a Chinook, Concourse RV so it has dual rear wheels. The front dana 60 has the factory dually adapters on it
and i used the 2021 Dodge alcoa wheels with the 8x200mm lug pattern.

Everything installed with no issues or so it seemed, but the truck has death wobble now so bad that the truck is virtually useless over 30 mph. The axle is a 2005 came out of a low miles F-350 dually, 40K miles. The wheels are new takes offs from a 2021 dodge Ram dually pickup. Once i realized it had death wobble i started replaing everything even though the old parts are still good, simply because i didnt know what else to do.

Everything on it is brand new now with the exception of the unit bearings. Tierods, draglink, tracbar, stabilzer, shocks, brakes, swaybar links, alignment with 5 degrees of caster, BFG KO2 E rated tires, etc... all new, yet still has death wobble terrible.

Im going to replace the unit bearings with a freespin kit because i cant see spending $500 dollars each for unit bearings.
Can you guys give me some opinions on which kit is better and why? Dynatrac or Spyntec??
Im at my wits end with this thing, this will be my last purchase before i contact an attorney about this conversion kit. I say that because the truck can never be put back to twin I-beam now because you have to cut the cross member to clear the 4x4 axle. The truck is basically useless at this point and not safe to drive even in town.

If i cant get this resolved i will have to file a lawsuit to recover the cost of the entire vehicle since it is not safe to drive at all. I hate to say anything beyond that but this is a $40,000 truck and its useless at this point. Theres no point finishing the 4x4 conversion if i cant get this death wobble resolved.
OK, just a thought here from a guy that is totally out of his comfort zone. Have you looked at having the wheels balanced while they are on the vehicle?

That way everything gets balanced.
See this
On the vehicle wheel balancing
 
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