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Agreed, but a sandwich of 2x12s still isn't necessary.
Which is why the crew who did my pole barn put a 2x12 on each side of the pole as a header with a 2x6 nailed between them on the bottom to make it a U shape.
I was not suggesting a full 2x12 header, just one on each side with a 2x6 flat between them on the bottom.

Aaron Z
 

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Which is why the crew who did my pole barn put a 2x12 on each side of the pole as a header with a 2x6 nailed between them on the bottom to make it a U shape.
I was not suggesting a full 2x12 header, just one on each side with a 2x6 flat between them on the bottom.

Aaron Z
Because 2x2x12's and a 2x6 are that much different than 3 2x12's???? :confused:

It also sounds like you'd be making a really awesome place for bird nests, bugs, dirt, etc to collect unless it's totally enclosed inside and out.

I would suggest that a 2x6/2x6 or 2x6/2x8 joined in an 'L' would be adequate for sheetling support, though I had not thought of door torsion spring load - I was envisioning door support on each side only, not from the middle of the header.
 

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Because 2x2x12's and a 2x6 are that much different than 3 2x12's???? :confused:



It also sounds like you'd be making a really awesome place for bird nests, bugs, dirt, etc to collect unless it's totally enclosed inside and out.



I would suggest that a 2x6/2x6 or 2x6/2x8 joined in an 'L' would be adequate for sheetling support, though I had not thought of door torsion spring load - I was envisioning door support on each side only, not from the middle of the header.
Then you have to put in cripples under them and all that.
With mine, they used structural lags to fasten the 2x12s to the posts, then put the 2x6 in the bottom. If you wanted to keep the critters out, you could put another on the top.
My barn is enclosed, so no birds, I don't care about dirt calling into there, it's 12+ feet up and I don't see it unless I am up there working.

Aaron Z

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Which is why the crew who did my pole barn put a 2x12 on each side of the pole as a header with a 2x6 nailed between them on the bottom to make it a U shape.
It's still not technically a header any more than putting in nailers that give drywall a place to attach to could be called framing.

I know it's nitpicky terminology, but there are people out there that think an actual header has to be framed above every door and window opening and don't understand a thing about load bearing.
 

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It's still not technically a header any more than putting in nailers that give drywall a place to attach to could be called framing.

I know it's nitpicky terminology, but there are people out there that think an actual header has to be framed above every door and window opening and don't understand a thing about load bearing.
What is it called then? They (the guys that built the barn) called it a header and everything online I can find calls it a non-load bearing header.

Aaron Z
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Can someone tell me how the bottom skirt should be installed in relation to the slab?
I can't find any that were built over an existing slab so most of the time the skirt is half way below the slab. Mine can be installed that way on the sides but I also have concrete ramps sloping out on the front and back so the skirt should be on the edge of the concrete all the way around? Then does it need to be sealed at the bottom of the skirt?

I guess I made my drawings up that way but didn't think about it much that the skirt boards won't be against the slab.


Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Also is there any way I could make the bottom of the posts last? I've read bad things about putting posts in to concrete like this and I'm not even sure how long they've been there but you can tell it's been awhile. Will enclosing the pole barn protect them more or it doesn't really make a difference?
 

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Can someone tell me how the bottom skirt should be installed in relation to the slab?
I can't find any that were built over an existing slab so most of the time the skirt is half way below the slab. Mine can be installed that way on the sides but I also have concrete ramps sloping out on the front and back so the skirt should be on the edge of the concrete all the way around? Then does it need to be sealed at the bottom of the skirt?

I guess I made my drawings up that way but didn't think about it much that the skirt boards won't be against the slab.
Mine is a couple inches taller than the slab at all the walls, there is no skirt board at the doors, they nailed a board across the door openings (with the top at finished floor height) before the pour and then took it off later.

Also is there any way I could make the bottom of the posts last? I've read bad things about putting posts in to concrete like this and I'm not even sure how long they've been there but you can tell it's been awhile. Will enclosing the pole barn protect them more or it doesn't really make a difference?
Our barns have laminated posts (like this: 2 x 6 x 20' Laminated 3-ply Column Prebuilt )
The builders also had available Permacolumns ( Home ) which are a concrete post that has a bracket to attach the wooden post to aboveground.
They said that the permancolumns were only really needed if you were putting columns in where you had standing water. Otherwise they were a waste of money in their opinion.

Aaron Z
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Thanks, so I don't need the skirt board to be against the slab, it can sit on top / bottom of board flush with the top?

I wish I had a menards near me to buy those specialty things, I cant find any how to on making those laminate beams
 

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Thanks, so I don't need the skirt board to be against the slab, it can sit on top / bottom of board flush with the top?
On mine, the skirt board is on the outside of the posts and doubles as the form board for the slab, height is variable, but they stick up above the slab by some amount.
I wish I had a menards near me to buy those specialty things, I cant find any how to on making those laminate beams
I dont have a Menards near me either, they were just the first decent result in my search.
Any decent lumberyard should have them available (my small town lumberyard had a bunch of 20 footers in stock when I needed them and dropped 3 off the next day).

Aaron Z
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
I'm thinking about going with two 9' garage doors so I'll need the openings to be 111" to my understanding, what is the best way? I understand the "header" but someone mentioned I need to anchor additional 6x6 posts to the concrete, is there an easier way like stacking 2x6?
I'd need 4 6x6, do these only go to the height of the opening?
 

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I'm thinking about going with two 9' garage doors so I'll need the openings to be 111" to my understanding, what is the best way? I understand the "header" but someone mentioned I need to anchor additional 6x6 posts to the concrete, is there an easier way like stacking 2x6?
I'd need 4 6x6, do these only go to the height of the opening?
Since you already have a slab, I would build a stud wall there. If you do want to go with a pole barn style, you will need to attach the posts to the slab.
If you go that route, I would use something like this bracket: Simpson Strong-Tie ABU ZMAX Galvanized Adjustable Standoff Post Base for 4x6 Nominal Lumber-ABU46Z - The Home Depot and 4x6 laminated posts such as: 2 x 6 x 20' Laminated 3-ply Column Prebuilt

That is what they use around here and they say that they hold up well.
I would probably try for a single 18' or 20' door rather than two 9x9 doors, much more flexibility on getting stuff into the barn that way.

Aaron Z
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
Thanks Aczlan, I will most likely make my own laminated posts because I couldn't locate any in my area and I found a pdf that explains the nail patterns for fastening together.
So what post base is meant to work for 5x6 laminated column?

As for the wide garage door, that would be awesome but I would need to take out the middle 6x6 and transfer the load of the structure out, I'm not experienced enough for all that, so I was opting for 2 doors. (1 on one side wouldn't look so good)
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Is it as simple as adding two new posts 10' height, attaching the 2 2x12's (and a 2x6) and cutting out the middle post at the bottom of the header? Does any one know if this header is sufficient for supporting the side-end? For the gable end it would make sense but I assume there is a middle post on the sides for a reason?
And it seems standard double door is 16', no idea where to find an 18 or 20'

Thanks,
 

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I did something similar last year. I converted an existing dirt floor pole barn carport to an enclosed garage with concrete. I added two rollup doors to the front plus a man door. Let me know if these pics help. The 3rd pic partial shows the stringers that needed to be worked in with the existing cantilever truss

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Discussion Starter #38
Very nice :) I think the main difference is metal truss system doesn't have all the wood to work off of.
One other thing I just noticed is my concrete is poured with the posts on the ramp so I'm not sure if there is a good way to mount posts there. Is it safe to use posts cut at an angle and fabricate custom bases for them?
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