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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know, I know, Hellfire knuckles :flipoff2:

A friend of mine put 80 axles under his 2nd gen last fall and got his name on the list for a set of hellfires. Fast forward ~6 months and Ruffstuff says they have no record of his order through a local shop even though they have the emails placing the order. They don't know when they'll be back in production, too fucking bad.

He knew I'd been doing research on a crossover setup for the last year+ since I have a ruffstuff 8" housing with 80 outers sitting on the floor of my shop, but I couldn't find much other than one guy (on here, can't remember the name) who ran weld on full hydro arms for a few years on a race? rig and a handful of examples that belong in the ghetto fab thread. So he became the guinea pig.

Personally I would do mine differently with a new steering arm/upper pin that double shears both the tie rod and drag link on the pass side, but he insisted on running 80 tre's instead of heims, so this is what I came up with without going too crazy.

I used a TG mini truck arm dropped in the upper hole, and built off of that. Once everything was in place I cut the arm off and welded/gusseted it to the knuckle. I did a little milling on the arm to key it into the brackets too.

I figured I'd throw it out here for anyone looking for some ideas, wrong or not, who want to keep the tie rod behind the axle or just have more time than money.

Flame away:flipoff2:
 

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I built some like you were describing, used a piece of 3/4 ID Dom tube to tie into the stock arms. Shortly after I finished them, a used set of hell fires came up for sale. I sold the Fab ones to drewp, but I don't think he ever ran them.

His look good as well, stock knuckles are cast steel and weld nice, a little pre and post heat is probably a good idea. I'd be more worried about welding to those shitty high steer arms than the knuckles.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I built some like you were describing, used a piece of 3/4 ID Dom tube to tie into the stock arms. Shortly after I finished them, a used set of hell fires came up for sale. I sold the Fab ones to drewp, but I don't think he ever ran them.

His look good as well, stock knuckles are cast steel and weld nice, a little pre and post heat is probably a good idea. I'd be more worried about welding to those shitty high steer arms than the knuckles.
The pot metal arms actually welded better than the knuckles. Not sure if that's good or bad, but they're damn near encased by 3/8 plate so I'm not too worried about that part failing. I tacked everything together then tossed it in the oven and wrapped it up to cool after it was welded out.

Apparently I didn't get all of the gear oil infused grease out of the wiper holes, so the oven needs a deep clean now :homer:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
not to down on what you are doing, but what are you really gaining by using an 80 knuckle over a mini knuckle?
Probably not a ton, but bigger birfs and more spread between the trunnion bearings is the draw for me. I see 80 guys beating the shit out of their rigs on 40s while the mini guys on 37-40s are breaking stuff or deforming knuckle balls.
Personally since I went to a fabricated housing and had the parts around it seemed to be a benifit. My 85 housing didn’t have a straight part on it and even with the balls gusseted and 25mm marlin bearings the shaft won’t come out of the pass side anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
But I also run 2.5 bypasses and air bumps on the front and it probably sees more air time then it should.
 

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popeye
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Probably not a ton, but bigger birfs and more spread between the trunnion bearings is the draw for me. I see 80 guys beating the shit out of their rigs on 40s while the mini guys on 37-40s are breaking stuff or deforming knuckle balls.
Personally since I went to a fabricated housing and had the parts around it seemed to be a benifit. My 85 housing didn’t have a straight part on it and even with the balls gusseted and 25mm marlin bearings the shaft won’t come out of the pass side anymore.
I've ran fabbed housings for years but never saw the benefit in swapping to 80 balls. My Diamond was build in 04 and has run most size tires from 39.5, 38.5 37 and 35s and has been beat on in two trucks. An xtracab and currently an 87 4runner. the birf's seem to be stronger than other parts. I recently sold my OG 30spline longs for some RCV's for no other reason but they had been run for so long.
 

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I've ran fabbed housings for years but never saw the benefit in swapping to 80 balls. My Diamond was build in 04 and has run most size tires from 39.5, 38.5 37 and 35s and has been beat on in two trucks. An xtracab and currently an 87 4runner. the birf's seem to be stronger than other parts. I recently sold my OG 30spline longs for some RCV's for no other reason but they had been run for so long.
They're bigger, how is that hard to understand that it's better?

It's not just the birfs, but as the op mentioned, stronger balls, stronger knuckles and more distance between the trunions. Oh and the most underrated thing on a trail rig, sharper steering!

I can't see cutting the balls off of perfectly good fab'd housing to put 80 balls on, but if youre starting from scratch, I can't see NOT going to 80 balls.

I beat on my trusses 80 axle hard enough to bend it in the middle and never had any issues with any of the steering.

I think no matter which way you go, getting a housing that is wide enough to not need spacers and 0 back spaced wheels is the first thing people should do.
 

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popeye
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They're bigger, how is that hard to understand that it's better?

It's not just the birfs, but as the op mentioned, stronger balls, stronger knuckles and more distance between the trunions. Oh and the most underrated thing on a trail rig, sharper steering!

I can't see cutting the balls off of perfectly good fab'd housing to put 80 balls on, but if youre starting from scratch, I can't see NOT going to 80 balls.

I beat on my trusses 80 axle hard enough to bend it in the middle and never had any issues with any of the steering.

I think no matter which way you go, getting a housing that is wide enough to not need spacers and 0 back spaced wheels is the first thing people should do.
inner shafts become the week spot.
distance between the trunions is a week argument at best
sharp steering on a toy axle? lmao
and ordering an 8" with 80 balls
you don't do anything but snow wheel:flipoff2:
I think that about covers it.
 

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inner shafts become the week spot.
distance between the trunions is a week argument at best
sharp steering on a toy axle? lmao
and ordering an 8" with 80 balls
you don't do anything but snow wheel:flipoff2:
I think that about covers it.
If you've been wheelin for years, you should know that there is no exact formula for what will break. It could be anything. I know at least 2 people who broke 30 spline chromo birfs and the inner axles were fine.

Weak argument? That's a pretty basic way to gain strength, use the same components but reduce leverage :homer:

80 birfs steer decently sharp, 45* iirc maybe a hair over, much better than a mini.

HP 8" with an ARB and quality gears would probably be a perfect fit for 80 outters. Which is funny that you say is dumb, because you just said it's pointless? What is it?

Snow? Yes, I wheel in the snow, but ya, going 30 mph into a stump you didn't see, that's not as hard on parts as driving over rocks at 1 mph?

I also wheel Fordyce, Rubicon, moonrocks, local trails. I tend to break more in the snow though.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
inner shafts become the week spot.
distance between the trunions is a week argument at best
sharp steering on a toy axle? lmao
and ordering an 8" with 80 balls
you don't do anything but snow wheel:flipoff2:
I think that about covers it.
Order an 8” housing with 80 outers? No, I thought this was pirate where we built our own shit
Get an 8” housing for cheap and have a line on a $400 80 axle with a hp diff that you can sell to pay for it? Yes

The bottom line is 80 parts are stronger. Much? Maybe not. But if I had a fabricated housing and a mini or 80 axle to scavenge parts off of, other than the availability of bolt on high steer the 80 makes sense all the way, absolutely no question about it. Bigger balls, bearings and birfs.

But, Alaska is mostly mud covered rocks, so snow wheeling is a good comparison :laughing:
 

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Back on topic, nice job on the knuckle. Lot of work for 80 TRE's, no reason to run those over heims these days IMO. Post more pics when you get the rest installed, that one you posted is front facing, right?
So the mini truck steering arm locating pin (the big one) is the same diameter as the 80 hole? Any reason one couldn't just machine up a press on sleeve to make a mini steering arm fit the bigger 80 trunnion bearing, and then just weld the fuck out of the arm straight to the knuckle? Just thinking out loud.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Back on topic, nice job on the knuckle. Lot of work for 80 TRE's, no reason to run those over heims these days IMO. Post more pics when you get the rest installed, that one you posted is front facing, right?
So the mini truck steering arm locating pin (the big one) is the same diameter as the 80 hole? Any reason one couldn't just machine up a press on sleeve to make a mini steering arm fit the bigger 80 trunnion bearing, and then just weld the fuck out of the arm straight to the knuckle? Just thinking out loud.
The pin is the same diameter, but there's not much meat on the 80 knuckle where the arm sits to weld it on there without a shit ton of gusseting. I think you'd end up about where I did, but with a trunnion pin that couldn't come out.

I did consider milling out the mini arm so that it fit around the 80 trunnion "cap", but for the amount of work I'd only get a couple more inches of weld.
 

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cool idea, I did some home made double sheer on fj80 knuckles on my last 4runner, upper arm to arm lower though..the weld to the knuckle idea is cool..

in classic pirate fashion a thread on steering stuff turns into a Toyota axle strength debate....the usual
 

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cool idea, I did some home made double sheer on fj80 knuckles on my last 4runner, upper arm to arm lower though..the weld to the knuckle idea is cool..

in classic pirate fashion a thread on steering stuff turns into a Toyota axle strength debate....the usual
Did the ones I made ever get used?
 

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cool idea, I did some home made double sheer on fj80 knuckles on my last 4runner, upper arm to arm lower though..the weld to the knuckle idea is cool..

in classic pirate fashion a thread on steering stuff turns into a Toyota axle strength debate....the usual
Did the ones I made ever get used?
nope I sold them with the truck...wish i had them now since I'm building an fj80/8.4 Tacoma front axle for my 1942 willys
 

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nope I sold them with the truck...wish i had them now since I'm building an fj80/8.4 Tacoma front axle for my 1942 willys
Ya, I remember, I just wasn't sure if you had any contact with the new owner.

Slow build huh? <a href="http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0" alt="" title="flipoff2" >:)</a>
real slow...I started getting into buying rental properties and guns...havnt touched it in years.
 
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