[IndyCJ]

I was looking at Rockstompers website (surfing the net at work. :flipoff2: )

And I ran across this line on their 'Dana 60' Page.....

Note: There is no currently-available Ford 35 spline outer stub kit. We are working on it. Because of issues with the Ford knuckle/brake/hub assembly, we strongly recommend swapping to GM/Dodge knuckles regardless of axleshaft setup.

This is the first time that I've heard this remark (although I think I might have read something to the same effect in BillaVista's awesome D60 tech page).

So, what's the skinny? What's everyone elses opinion? What are these 'issues'?

Does this mean that my "Snowfighter" High pinion D60 is 'incomplete' and won't be 'worthy' until I find freakin Chevy stuff?

Just wondering, let the games begin.. :flipoff2:

edit: Oh yea, anyone interested in trading ford D60 knuckles out for Chevy?

 

[DSI]

buy chevy stub's, cut .600 off of them and run it...

 

[IndyCJ]

buy chevy stub's, cut .600 off of them and run it...

I agree.

But, that doesn't answer the question of the "issues with the Ford knuckle/brake/hub assembly"

 

[Scout Dude]

Ford Knuckles are supposidly weaker (They do look a little weaker) and the brakes are said to not be very 15" wheel friendly. However, I know that Bigdude got around the brake issue with calipers of a different year...and I got around my brake issues by using the WMS 15" brake kit which comes with new caliper brackets that use large GM calipers.

Oh, and my '79 spindle is no longer available new....other than that, what's the problem?

 

[IndyCJ]

Ford Knuckles are supposidly weaker (They do look a little weaker) and the brakes are said to not be very 15" wheel friendly. However, I know that Bigdude got around the brake issue with calipers of a different year...and I got around my brake issues by using the WMS 15" brake kit which comes with new caliper brackets that use large GM calipers.

Oh, and my '79 spindle is no longer available new....other than that, what's the problem?

bah! :flipoff2:

I'm running hummer rims, so I'm not worried about clearance. It just sounds like there is some sort of 'structural' issue that I had never heard of.

I thought this might be something that needs to be addressed, before I get it together.

 

[AZFord4x4]

Oh, and my '79 spindle is no longer available new

I just put a new one from Spicer on my 78 a year ago... is this a recent thing?

 

[[email protected]]

This is the first time that I've heard this remark (although I think I might have read something to the same effect in BillaVista's awesome D60 tech page).
So, what's the skinny? What's everyone elses opinion? What are these 'issues'?

Issues:
15" wheel/caliper interference--more so than Chevy/Dodge.
5-7/16" spindle studs--Chevy/Dodge uses 6-1/2" spindle studs.
Ford assembly is knuckle->caliper stand->spindle. Chevy/Dodge is knuckle->spindle->caliper stand.
Thinner ribbing on the Ford knuckle than the Chevy or Dodge.
35 spline stubs are Ford specific and unavailable right now--Chevy and Dodge use the same stuff--and it's available brand-new from Dana Spicer.
Six States has new Chevy/Dodge 5x5.5, 6x5.5, and 8x6.5 wheel hubs--but not Ford.

This collective stack-o-issues, is why the new kingpin knuckles we're working on now, will be Chevy--the parts availability is better across the board, plus the spindle/knuckle interface, IMHO, is stronger.

Edit: Feel free to rip me a new one over this stuff.
And if you'd like, I'll put the issues I just noted, on the webpage.
Just to clarify--nobody said the Ford knuckles were junk. Only that the Chevy and Dodge ones are better. Have to focus on what can be done economically sometimes... it's more economical to build a superburly front end using Chevy/Dodge outers than Ford.

 

[GhettoRig]

I'm just wondering if the five 7/16ths spindle mounting studs have broken on anyone? I've never heard of them breaking.

 

[IndyCJ]

Re: Re: Ford RC D60 junk?

Feel free to rip me a new one over this stuff.

Dude,

I wouldn't think about ripping ya a new one, just curious actually. I'm trying to build my Jeep by the 'build it right, not twice' philosophy, and if there are issues that I can address during the buildup, I'd rather hear/address those during this phase, then be out on the trail and have failure.

Just for shitz and giggles, I would like to hear from somebody that has(d) a Ford D60, had the 'issues', and put Chevy outers on the axle. Just to see what the opinion/same problems occured kind of thing.

 

[[email protected]]

If you want to run 15" wheels, the Ford brakes require wheels with less backspacing than the Chevy setup requires. Depending on how big a wheel/tire you want to run, this could add up to being really wide. The difference isn't huge--it's around an inch a side, depending on year and grinding or non-grinding.

If you want to run high steer, the Ford knuckles seem to have more issues with the upper kingpin area strength than others. Chevy and Dodge knuckles break too, nothing's indestructible, but the Chevy stuff has thicker ribbing around the upper kingpin area, hence less problem.

I've never seen a broken spindle stud personally. Heard from guys who've broken them, usually involving a very hard landing... so maybe I'm overcautious there. FWIW, the 7/16" Ford studs, are a stock item at Randy's R&P. The 1/2" Chevy/Dodge studs, are a special order. Call me silly for this, but if Randy's stocks 'em, Randy's must be selling them (or have made a huge mistake), and the only reason they'd be selling them is if people are damaging them. Nobody's making new Ford knuckles either, and spindle studs aren't (IMHO) a wear item.

The wheel hub thing, doesn't matter if you want to run stock wheel hubs. If you want to change the bolt pattern, it's less expensive to do so on a Chevy (buy new hubs) than on a Ford (machine your hubs).
If you run low steer, the upper kingpin ribbing doesn't matter either.
If you're gonna jump it to the moon, you're gonna break it. That's a fact of life... but I've been guilty of stupid human tricks as often as the next guy.
If you're OK with 30 spline stubs (or custom-machined 35 spline stuff that costs more) then there's no reason to go to Chevy. If you anticipate breaking 35 spline stubs (BTDT, with a 22R!) and want to keep your parts cost down, then Chevy/Dodge is the way to go on the stubs, which pretty much requires the hubs, spindles, etc., to match up.

There may be some other side issues too... stock Chevy knuckles are nodular iron, stock Dodge knuckles appear to be gray iron. Haven't gotten a set of Ford knuckles that I can cut up for testing yet. If the Ford knuckles are gray iron, that would be a huge push towards Chevy (simply superior material) but without destroying a knuckle, I can't find out.

 

[Scout Dude]

I just put a new one from Spicer on my 78 a year ago... is this a recent thing?

I guess so..I was looking last year and Randy's didn't have it, neither did WCD..it was an obslete p/n.

Anyways, I think Scott hit the nail on the head with his reply...

I bought my HP60 for what I thought was a deal (And judging by current prices, still seems to be) and then I had it moved over to Pass side drop and narrowed to 65".

If I had it to do over again, I'd have bought a GM 60 and then a Tera or Prorock center and just put it together that way...It would have cost me the same amount since I needed new inners (I had the neck-down style), the 15" brake kit vs GM brakes which can fit 3.5" bs, etc...

 

[AZFord4x4]

Re: Re: Ford RC D60 junk?

Six States has new Chevy/Dodge 5x5.5, 6x5.5, and 8x6.5 wheel hubs--but not Ford.

Ford D60 Hub/Rotor assembly from Autozone is $115

 

[AZFord4x4]

Re: Re: Re: Ford RC D60 junk?

Just for shitz and giggles, I would like to hear from somebody that has(d) a Ford D60, had the 'issues', and put Chevy outers on the axle. Just to see what the opinion/same problems occured kind of thing.

I broke 2 drivers side steering knuckles on mine back when I had push/pull steering. Since going crossover I havn't had any problems as of yet, I do carry a spare passenger side knuckle just in case.

 

[Insayn]

On mine I went for the 35 spline outers. I had to have them cut down, regrooved and the lockout hubs had to machined to fully engage. There are little "feet" that need to be turned down from what Sunray Engineering told me for the hub to fully lock in. That way you don't have the chance of blowing the hub out. I dunno.

 

[Jaffer]

...and I got around my brake issues by using the WMS 15" brake kit which comes with new caliper brackets that use large GM calipers.

If you want to run 15" wheels, the Ford brakes require wheels with less backspacing than the Chevy setup requires. Depending on how big a wheel/tire you want to run, this could add up to being really wide.

I had Allied mock up for me a 15" 8 lug rim (same one they cut for their beadlocks) with an unwelded 4" back spaced center to see how much backspacing I could squeeze out of the Waggoner (WMS) 15" brake kit on my Ford SnowFighter.
The rim fit with the caliper only barely touching the rim's step-down and will be no problem at all with just a small nick cut on the WMS caliper.
And I'm sure with just a little more grinding on the caliper one could mount 4.5" backspaced rims on the Waggoner kit.

 

[camo]

i would not say the ford stuff is junk. but the knuckles are not as strong as the chevy if you plan to run ram steering and hy steer then i would consider switching to chevys for added strength.



sandy cone makes a ford ( and chevy ) brake kit that allows you to run huge 4 piston willwood calipers with 15" rims. 805-239-2663

 

[Slagburn]

stock Chevy knuckles are nodular iron, stock Dodge knuckles appear to be gray iron. Haven't gotten a set of Ford knuckles that I can cut up for testing yet.

HEY! Leave me enough to bolt back on, willya!

 

[[email protected]]

HEY! Leave me enough to bolt back on, willya!

Heheheh... haven't cut 'em up... yet.

Tim is going to Magnaflux at least one of 'em though, I think. I was very specific--no destructive testing on yours.

Did I tell you what he did to verify what the Chevy knuckles were when I took the chunk in off mine? He spat on it, rubbed the spit into the iron in the freshly cut-off area, then sniffed it. Said "it's ductile iron".

Then he took it to the gas chromatograph and verified that it really is ductile iron.

You know your foundry guy is good when he can spit on a part, sniff it, and tell you what material it is by how it smells.

But take a guess at how frustrating it is to think that I could've just ground him a clean spot on a knuckle (instead of cutting a chunk off!) and let him spit-n-sniff with it still on the truck. Only problem is, it won't fit in the gas chromatograph (to confirm the spit-n-sniff test) unless it's in small pieces.

 

[bigdude]

To fix the Ford brake issues I did the following...

1) 1982 F350 caliper

That's it.

Grinding took MAYBE 10 minutes per side and was done on the caliper stand itslelf and VERY minimally on the caliper (only a couple touch spots). I ran 15" rims with 3.5" BS and cleared by plenty. Probably could squeeze 3.75" BS but with 8 lug locks 3.5" was standard from Allied.

It isn't hard to fit 15s on a dual piston 1-ton Ford brake set-up when you use this caliper. I say worry about any knuckle issues if you ever break one. I just couldn't justify swapping them until I knew I would/could break them (and with the Jeep at 3250 lbs I hope I can't).

 

[Eric]

I had Allied mock up for me a 15" 8 lug rim (same one they cut for their beadlocks) with an unwelded 4" back spaced center to see how much backspacing I could squeeze out of the Waggoner (WMS) 15" brake kit on my Ford SnowFighter.
The rim fit with the caliper only barely touching the rim's step-down and will be no problem at all with just a small nick cut on the WMS caliper.
And I'm sure with just a little more grinding on the caliper one could mount 4.5" backspaced rims on the Waggoner kit.

Do you have any more pics of the WMS brake kit?