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Well, I've been putting the old 304 back together so I can campaign the old racer some more before the new one is ready..



Hope to get it installed this week and the rest of the car prepped before 3/15.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Well, I've got a little time so I'll update what I can..

Racer is doing good. I've got a few things in and have built another few things. I'd like to get the front suspension finished before hacking off the back end, but we'll see.

I believe I left off with the rear arms. I guess I'll start there.

To insure the CO is below the line made from connecting the front joint with the rear joint we put them below the surface in these 'boat' arms (if that makes sense). This keeps the arms right side up dispite the load put on them. The holes we drilled in earlier were oversized so we can cut out some spacers (made from DOM) and weld those spacers such that the shock stays centered in the link (doesn't flop around on the bolt).

Once the spacers were made, we inserted them in with the shock and got them centered.



Then a tack weld kept them in place.


Oddly enough, I don't have a picture of them fully welded w/ the excess cut and sanded smooth so use your imagination ~ if you will. The shocks should use a 3-3.5" half inch bolt when said and done. We chased the holes after we were done to make sure there wasn't any slag left in there. After that, the bolt and shocks fit in there pretty tight!

The next big thing to report on is the front suspension. We used our standard mounts for the front.

But instead of using our normal 2.250" (3/8" wall) DOM, Tom had us make it out of 2" (.120 wall) DOM. We didn't need all that beef since this rig won't be seeing boulders. The upper link is 1.75" DOM as our normal, but only .120" wall instead of .281".

The tricky part was connecting the two together. Tom wanted to connect the tubes together as close to the frame-side joint as possible to minimize any possible chance of bending the links from the torque generated by axle wrap. Our normal links connect near the center of the lower link ~ Tom was worried that the thinner materials combine with the forces of off-road racing may generate enough 'push' to actually bend the lower link at the connection ~ so we pushed that point as far back as possible. This also spreads any such loads out over the length of the arm, not just at the one point.



These notches were tricky. After drawing a rough part to cut, I used a cut-off wheel to get the rough shape.


Then I used a flapper wheel to feather the parts down till they matched.


The seams were then welded up.

 

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Discussion Starter #65
I would have loved to leave them like that ~ Not sure if they'd be strong enough, but even so ~ I added a tube near the upper axle joint.


Both together.



Mounted in the truck.
 

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Once the spacers were made, we inserted them in with the shock and got them centered.
How much side to side angle does it accommodate? When the axle articulates, the entire trailing arm will want to twist - first at the axle end joint, then at the front mount, which will rock the entire "boat" around the lower shock mount, which will need to articulate enough that the heim doesn't bind up and bend the shock shaft (BTDT).

But instead of using our normal 2.250" (3/8" wall) DOM, Tom had us make it out of 2" (.120 wall) DOM. We didn't need all that beef since this rig won't be seeing boulders. The upper link is 1.75" DOM as our normal, but only .120" wall instead of .281".

The tricky part was connecting the two together. Tom wanted to connect the tubes together as close to the frame-side joint as possible to minimize any possible chance of bending the links from the torque generated by axle wrap. Our normal links connect near the center of the lower link ~ Tom was worried that the thinner materials combine with the forces of off-road racing may generate enough 'push' to actually bend the lower link at the connection ~ so we pushed that point as far back as possible. This also spreads any such loads out over the length of the arm, not just at the one point.
Looking good, Damian.

Before you call them done, plate one or both sides with some light gauge sheet steel. No more than 1/8" mild.

By making the triangle as long / large as possible (bringing the joining point as far back as reasonable) we get by with lighter material only because by tying the two sides together into a triangle we make the top and bottom stronger together much stronger than either would be singly.

By plating at least one side, we amplify that strength advantage. If you have some dimple dies, here's your chance to put a dimple in either side plate and weld the two dimples together in the middle (don't want the radius arm filling up with mud). It would look fast, but mostly add strength and maybe save a little weight.

In unrelated news, the 304 lives again, and runs OK so far. Still a bit of the "new engine, I'm cranky" going on, but by the end of Saturday that'll mostly be gone after I do a "run it like yer gonna" break-in on the race course in Cascade - just like we did the first time this engine was put together. I was making passes down a drag-strip in Brighton, CO and after a couple passes we had to jet the carb up because the rings seated some more and it was pulling more vacuum.. repeat after a few more runs..
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Next I have to say a BIG THANK YOU to Mike @ IH Only in Lancaster. He's the guy behind the RPT line and he hooked us up with some of his finest.

Box arrived. Hum...stickers.


A box of boxes!


Money shot


Motor mounts

Trans mount


You can always tell a successful line of product when you see you have #2930!


In the way of suspension. I also got a bracket from PolyPerformance.


This is their axle-side track bar. We went with this unit over anything else because allows us to MAXIMIZE the TrackBar length on this beast.


A little Chipotle Burrito?


Na ~ its the high-misalignment high-strength heim end for the new bracket.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Fits tight ~ almost like they were made for each other!


Holing the bracket up to the axle housing.


The other reason I used PolyPerformance's bracket was that it offsets itself so that you can push it really close to the knuckle AND still fit a coil-over next to it (sloped back that is).


It'll need trimming to get to the final fitment, but you guys get the idea.

For those of you who dont know, the goal is to get the track bar as long as the DragLink will be. This will minimize bump-steer. Normally you can get away with having a difference, since most people don't abuse their stuff like this will. But considering the rig will see more time in the air than most scouts on jack-stands ~ its important to minimize bumpsteer.

That's all the time I have today folks. Maybe later ~ maybe more.
 

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Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
How much side to side angle does it accommodate? When the axle articulates, the entire trailing arm will want to twist - first at the axle end joint, then at the front mount, which will rock the entire "boat" around the lower shock mount, which will need to articulate enough that the heim doesn't bind up and bend the shock shaft (BTDT).
Not much at all actually. You'll have to check and make sure the jam nuts at the frame don't come loose to keep the lower link straight. That being said ~ the sides of the arm can be hogged out down to the double-wall thickness for more 'angular' action. I was thinking of doing that just because, and there will be no strength problems by doing it.


Looking good, Damian.
Thanks. I was hoping you'd like it. Just need to put that motor in now and finish the rear up. As you know, the cage is coming along but I'm waiting to finish that until the motor is in. I'll also be finishing up the firewall mods at the same time.

Before you call them done, plate one or both sides with some light gauge sheet steel. No more than 1/8" mild.
Man, I'd hate to ~ I like the look of tube ~ and honestly, I don't think there's going to be enough strength gain in it to make a difference, but regardless, I've got some dimple dies coming to do just that. I think we'll do both sides and then leave small drain holes near the 'connecting tube' for cleaning.

Oh, and pick some colors man, these arms are getting powdercoated ~ and no, you don't have a choice in the matter :D :D :D

By plating at least one side, we amplify that strength advantage. If you have some dimple dies, here's your chance to put a dimple in either side plate...
Hey man, waddya know ~ great minds eh?

It would look fast,
Oh man, you had me at 'hello'

In unrelated news, the 304 lives again, and runs OK so far. Still a bit of the "new engine, I'm cranky" going on, but by the end of Saturday that'll mostly be gone after I do a "run it like yer gonna" break-in on the race course in Cascade - just like we did the first time this engine was put together. I was making passes down a drag-strip in Brighton, CO and after a couple passes we had to jet the carb up because the rings seated some more and it was pulling more vacuum.. repeat after a few more runs..
Good stuff. That engine looks oh so sweet too. I wish it had an aluminum intake, but save that favor for a 345 or a 392 :evil:

We're going to have to get Rob to fly me up there with his cheap tickets so I can drive this thing at least once when its all put together. I'll even have you take me for a real lap to scare me a bit. ;)
 

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Next I have to say a BIG THANK YOU to Mike @ IH Only in Lancaster. He's the guy behind the RPT line and he hooked us up with some of his finest.

You can always tell a successful line of product when you see you have #2930!


#1147 is the one I damaged in 2006. It had been in the racer since 2001. Either 1146 or 1148 is still in the racer.

I've had good luck with IHOnly's mounts.
 

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Oh, and pick some colors man, these arms are getting powdercoated ~ and no, you don't have a choice in the matter :D :D :D
LOL.

I keep thinking of a poll to see what everyone thinks I should do.. but Michelle went to a photography retreat last weekend and among other things, Red is a good "fast" color that pops off the photograph when taking action photography.. and it just happens that I was contemplating reversing the black/red theme to red/black for the new car.. bonus, IH Red is sold at the farm store. ;)


Good stuff. That engine looks oh so sweet too.
Thanks, looks a bit better than it used to! It didn't help that a month after it was built it took a bath in an alkali mud pit that ate all of the paint off..



I wish it had an aluminum intake, but save that favor for a 345 or a 392 :evil:
:nod: With the 345/392 under way, I didn't want to buy a 304 4bbl intake for the stop-gap / backup engine, but I do intend to ask Mike about a beer-can intake for the next one.

For that matter, I might get back to the sheetmetal intake for the 304, just because.

BTW, I have some "LPG" style 304 intake gaskets on the motor now, blocking the exhaust cross-over for a cooler intake charge - and more crankiness when cold.

We're going to have to get Rob to fly me up there with his cheap tickets so I can drive this thing at least once when its all put together. I'll even have you take me for a real lap to scare me a bit. ;)
There's also the track in Powell that isn't too-long of a hoof from Denver. Take your wife n' kids to the rodeos in Cody, or cruise into Yellowstone while you're in the area. Plus, 4.5 miles at speed can be fun. Robert's GF had a good time, despite some 2-wheel action, last October.

"Ice racing" in the arena at RMIHR just won't be an adequate demonstration.
 

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So, what are the plans for weight distribution, corner weights and front to rear on the new ride? Got scales?
 

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So why not solid mount the power train like on real race trucks?
Good question. My VW Baja has a solid mounted transaxle (and engine but it just hangs off the transaxle anyway). It's a pretty standard 1st step when building a baja bug. FWIW.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
So, what are the plans for weight distribution, corner weights and front to rear on the new ride? Got scales?
I want to divide it up such that if you add up the corners, it equals the wieght of the whole vehicle ;)

But really. I don't have any 'goals' per say. I'm moving the engine back completely behind the front axle ~ moving the radiator as well. lightening it up as much as possible and if needed, wieghing down the back a touch with spare tires and such. With stretching the rear axle back and moving the front axle forward, I'm really not sure what the net effect will be. I'm sure it'll fly better than stock ~ how much? Don't know.

Any ideas before I make engine placement permanent? Anyone?

So why not solid mount the power train like on real race trucks?
Because this is a Scout ~ not a truck...DUH! I do what I'm told (mostly) ~ Engine mounts included. It would have definately made mounting a little easier...but hey, when is building scouts supposed to be easy?

Also, your gonna want to build some sort of skin for the lower tubes. The trophy ranger has .120 chromoly links and after 500 miles of pre-running they looked awful. No failures but it has since been beefed up.
What do you mean? Tom and I have talked about sleaving the bottom for more strength ~ is that what you're talking about?
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Got a few minutes..

Cage was just hanging out for a bit, but I finally got to put some work into it.


The outer section worked out good ~ took a CRAPLOAD of flapper-wheel work to get the notches just right ~ landing on the curve wasn't the best idea.


Middle X started.


...more...


Welding it up


Sweet ~ it holds Pauls hand up, its gotta be strong enough..


And with that, I'm outta time...more coming.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
A little more.

Here's our junkyard 9-inch. I was pleased to find a 78 F150 that was clean, straight and without anything taken yet and saw this rather clean 9-inch. You know, I went to the 'cheap' junkyard (sells any axle for $99 regardless of what it is) to pick this up trying to save a buck on the build. Turns out that they now charge for the drums AND a core charge for the axle :confused:

At least its in good shape.

Even with ~ freakin thing was dirty. Luckily not as much goopy stuff, but it did cover me is silt.


Swept & pulled the 'new' axle under the chassis

~ Here's another pet peave. Why is it I can take a freakin wire wheel to the whole frame and most of what's left of the body and still get misc crap covering the ground under the scout?

Pulled out the axle dolley to help move the axle around.


Test fitted the truss ~ made sure it'll fit.



Welded on the lower link mounts. I put them below the axle centerline ~ Normally I wouldn't do this, but this time I did to keep the joint-to-mount 'deflection' to nothing.


Pinion angles a little high, but looks pretty good.


Since the axle was in, I was able to get the end-all wheel base. It'll be about 116.5" ~ should make for a comfy and stable ride.
 

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So why not solid mount the power train like on real race trucks?
Good enough for 852 = good enough for me? :D

Hadn't really occurred to me. I have this far that solid mounting leads to fatigue failure from vibrations, but I have nothing solid to back that up.

When will that race-glass be ready?

Also, your gonna want to build some sort of skin for the lower tubes. The trophy ranger has .120 chromoly links and after 500 miles of pre-running they looked awful. No failures but it has since been beefed up.
Looked awful as in - dings from rocks and such?

As Damian alluded, I was thinking of taking a length of 2.25x.120 and slice it in half, and just sleeve the bottom half of the lower tube, making the bottom 1/4" thick and adding tons of strength.

On the weight.. the old car is 3800lbs. It has a lot of interior sheetmetal, and the cage is (dare I say it) Sch40 in many places - heavier and weaker than the DOM being used.

I suspect the new one will be heavier when we're done, with extra rollcage, the extra wheelbase, and other upgrades, though I hope it won't be much more than the current 3800lbs mark. An LS1 would sure help with that, but it'd take away some of the charm (huh?!).

Since the new car wasn't ready in time, I had to go flog the old one today.



Only good enough for 2nd place in the Comp-Mod obstacle, while I was seriously outgunned in the baja even before I threw the power steering belt and then melted the shifter cable on the headers and got stuck in 1st gear. I have a hard enough time competing with 460-Ford Class 8 trucks when the Scout is at 100%, let alone handicapped. Hopefully that'll change with this new chassis.

Motor's doing fine though. Rings have done some seating.

My arms hurt, and I haven't slept much this past week (loaned my trailer out a week ago, it came back broken, so it had to be fixed AND the car prepped with things like assembling and installing the engine..), so it must be time to turn in for the night. :D
 

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I want to divide it up such that if you add up the corners, it equals the wieght of the whole vehicle ;)

But really. I don't have any 'goals' per say. I'm moving the engine back completely behind the front axle ~ moving the radiator as well. lightening it up as much as possible and if needed, wieghing down the back a touch with spare tires and such. With stretching the rear axle back and moving the front axle forward, I'm really not sure what the net effect will be. I'm sure it'll fly better than stock ~ how much? Don't know.

Any ideas before I make engine placement permanent? Anyone?
Work on corner balance and put as much as possible between the axles and low as possible too. Just doing that will make the truck feel way lighter to steering input. Much more nimble and controlled. It won't feel like a Scout. :D

If I were to do one, the trans would be separate from the engine and far back as possible. With engine plates, an easy task.

Also since this rig will really be flying low, do you have an oil Accumulator since you have no dry sump?

You know on my rig, I only have an 300# difference between the front and rear axle weights with a 1/4 tank fuel, the 8274 on the front and with driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #80 (Edited)
Good enough for 852 = good enough for me? :D
Diva-la-Mandera! ~ you know, I may just have to make a sticker that says that ~ that is, if it means 'Mandera the Diva' :D

Hadn't really occurred to me. I have this far that solid mounting leads to fatigue failure from vibrations, but I have nothing solid to back that up.
Mike was good enough to sponser us, and they've been really good for you before, so my thought is to keep them. What's the downside of having good urethane RPT mounts? I'm not sure the chassis vibrations will be bad, but I know they may be annoying ~ expectially as the engine sees the next few years abuse and starts vibrating more.

When will that race-glass be ready?
OH TELL ME we're getting some quarters soon. I've got the rear end mocked up and trussed and I was just thinking how nice it'd be to have some quarters to build the rear cage work around.

On the weight.. the old car is 3800lbs....I suspect the new one will be heavier when we're done, with extra rollcage, the extra wheelbase, and other upgrades, though I hope it won't be much more than the current 3800lbs mark.
I'd like to see as close to that as possible. I wish we had $$ for aluminum links, but still, as close to that as possible (emphasis on lower).

An LS1 would sure help with that, but it'd take away some of the charm (huh?!).
Indeed. We could put a LS1 in there ~ and a narrowed Jeep liberty front clip and call it a 'jeep' RockRacer!

Since the new car wasn't ready in time, I had to go flog the old one today.
:p
Great picture. Nothing like beating a rig and capuring it on video/camera. You seem to have a knack of capturing that angle makes me think ~ 'we'll need more tubing'. Can't amagine what got you in that position, but link me the video when you get the chance ~ I wanna see!

Only good enough for 2nd place in the Comp-Mod obstacle, while I was seriously outgunned in the baja even before I threw the power steering belt and then melted the shifter cable on the headers and got stuck in 1st gear. I have a hard enough time competing with 460-Ford Class 8 trucks when the Scout is at 100%, let alone handicapped. Hopefully that'll change with this new chassis.
Your up against a 460 with an IH304? Holy crap man, time to get that 392 built! It may not rev as high as the 304 but it'll build power sooner.

Motor's doing fine though. Rings have done some seating.
Great to know.
loaned my trailer out a week ago, it came back broken
Dude I hate that. When I borrow stuff, if it breaks, I take care of it. People who don't make me mad. My buddy barrowed my trailer once and brought it back with no wiring ~ turns out he didn't make sure the wirirng wasn't rubbing the ground while in motion and the whole thing got trashed. I made him replace it ~ never was 100% after that.

Work on corner balance and put as much as possible between the axles and low as possible too. Just doing that will make the truck feel way lighter to steering input. Much more nimble and controlled. It won't feel like a Scout. :D
Moving the motor back as much as we are should push allot of wieght to what is currently looking like a weight-free rear end. Not sure how much to put back there but I'm thinking the front should be a little heavier but not much.

If I were to do one, the trans would be separate from the engine and far back as possible. With engine plates, an easy task.
Where would you put the transfercase and how would you deal with the short rear driveshaft?

Also since this rig will really be flying low, do you have an oil Accumulator since you have no dry sump?
Mmmn... Accumulator. Hey Mr Race guy ~ got one to lend out?

You know on my rig, I only have an 300# difference between the front and rear axle weights with a 1/4 tank fuel, the 8274 on the front and with driver.
How did you acheive that ~ besides going with a chevy mill.:D:p:laughing::grinpimp:
 
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