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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, lets see how your front shackle and springs are set up. Anwswer questions below when repling and pics are great.

What shackles are you using?
What length is your shackles?
And what springs are you using?

(Lets see pictures to see angle and mounting of your front shackles.)

Any helpful tech info or configuration of your springs, shackles, spring perches, and drop on your front end (especially 85 or older trucks and runners) would be appreciated.

Anyone who is not interested in this info and wants to waste their time or our time with the traditional "Search Newbie" and flaming responses is highly encouraged to be directed to this link. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112031
 

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Discussion Starter #2
What shackles are you using? After market. Downey I believe.

What length is your shackles? 6.5" from eye hole to eye hole.

And what springs are you using? AllPro 5" lift springs.

(Lets see pictures to see angle and mounting of your front shackles.)

As you can see my shackle sits straight up and down and I have no drop in the front. I want to get them to sit at like 45degree by going to a longer spring. I am going to add a 2x4 drop in the front and would like to do a little longer shackle in the front. Any suggestions on longer shackles (either home made or store bought) and a spring pack that is longer than the 45" AllPro pack?
 

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http://home.off-road.com/~mithrandir/sas/sas51.jpg

That pic is simlar to yours. Dick Cepeck shackle. Looks just like yours and is 6.5" eye to eye. They're sitting in the closet now.

My new ones are two straight pieces of stock, 4.5" from eye to eyes (1/2" lift over the stock 3.5" long shackle) and with the Kongs4x4 front hanger, my shackles are 35-40 degrees now.

You just need to build a beefy front crossmember and go to a shorter shackle and lose some of that excessive lift.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
TNToy said:
http://home.off-road.com/~mithrandir/sas/sas51.jpg

That pic is simlar to yours. Dick Cepeck shackle. Looks just like yours and is 6.5" eye to eye. They're sitting in the closet now.

My new ones are two straight pieces of stock, 4.5" from eye to eyes (1/2" lift over the stock 3.5" long shackle) and with the Kongs4x4 front hanger, my shackles are 35-40 degrees now.

You just need to build a beefy front crossmember and go to a shorter shackle and lose some of that excessive lift.

Where are you talking about building a front crossmember? I will check out kongs. Do you have any pics?
 

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no pics.

top 3 main leafs from toy rear pack, bottom 3 from a rear 4"yj pack

2" longer than stock shackles

stock 84 hanger gives about 4-5" of lift

this gives perfect shackle angle at about 45* has not been drivin on to much yet, nor wheeled, but both spring packs were used.

before he had 4"yj springs that were from the front of a yj in stock 84 hangers and stock shackles. the shackle was perfectly vertical and didn';t give a nice ride, since the swap and short 5 minute trips he has taken, it rides much softer and flexes better.

i would also like to know before i do my sas if i should make 2 holes in my front hanger? since some people say with toy rears you need your front hanger moved forward but not in my friends case, i guess since his springs have arc and they are not flat that the distance between spring eye to spring eyes is shorter which in turn you would not need the hanger moved forward for shackle angle?. im going with either stock waggies or toy rear hybrids and if i should drill 2 holes i would like to know now. one in stock location and one 1" forward or?


roc dog booger welds used all pro and toy rear hybrids and they did good until he did something stupid:flipoff2: :p
 

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notice how flat the factory solid axle springs sit. when designing a leaf spring front end with flat springs (like rears) try and use the same drop on the hanger as you use in shackle length thus keeping factory caster angles close to stock. i believe roger brown recommends 1* of shim for one inch of varience in either direction....and it takes roughly ~2" on one end to make one inch of actual lift....

i cant recommend reading rogers tech enough:D thats how i got my shit all dialed....
 

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pitter said:
top 3 main leafs from toy rear pack, bottom 3 from a rear 4"yj pack
2" longer than stock shackles
stock 84 hanger gives about 4-5" of lift
this gives perfect shackle angle at about 45* has not been drivin on to much yet, nor wheeled, but both spring packs were used.

\

I have the very same set up and it works great.
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Booger Weldz said:
notice how flat the factory solid axle springs sit. when designing a leaf spring front end with flat springs (like rears) try and use the same drop on the hanger as you use in shackle length thus keeping factory caster angles close to stock. i believe roger brown recommends 1* of shim for one inch of varience in either direction....and it takes roughly ~2" on one end to make one inch of actual lift....

i cant recommend reading rogers tech enough:D thats how i got my shit all dialed....
Will I loose any lift from going from the 5" AP front springs pack to using the 3 top stock rear springs and the 3 bottom AP springs as one pack? Also will I have any problem matching up my 3 bottom AP springs to the 3 top stock rear springs because my AP's have more arch than the rear stockers will have? Or when I bolt them together will they just mold to each other?
 

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2" drop front hanger, holes for stock front/rear location and 1" forward.

Started out w/ stock Toy front springs w/ Rancho main leaf and home made 4" shackles under the frame. Big shim under the spring to maintain decent caster (i.e.- not too much)



Changed over to 4" AP springs and home made 5" shackles through the frame. Same over all lift. Mucho better, IMHO. No more shim either.



Lots more info here:

http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer/sas.html
 

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I'm running rears up front with wranglers to back them up. Not real sure if there gonna work the way I want them to. If they don't I'll probly be putting some waggies in place of the wranglers. Notice though I am using the shackle up front like ZUK and I am probly getting most of my lift from hanger under the frame and shackle up front. I'm also using the factory rear shackle. I wanted to use all factory size stuff so it's easier to get bushings when they where out. So far I have 12 dollars in my front suspention:p . All I bought was the new spring bushings, but I didn't really have to, just did so it's got all new bushings. If you want there's more pics at the link in my signature.



 

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Can you explain the pro's/con's of moving the shackle to the front of the spring? If this is such a benefit then why do jeeps do shackle reversals to move the shackle to the rear of the spring??
Thanks
Jeff
 

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I'm running top two off an 84 rear pack with three leafs out of what I believe was a rancho front 3" lift set. Front hanger is 1" forward and 1" lower and shackles are 1" lift from AOR. The springs set all but flat and the shackle is a little flater than 45*. Sorry no pics. I'm a 90' runner with a 3.0L with about 3.5+" of lift.

Hope that helps
 

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KING K5 said:
Can you explain the pro's/con's of moving the shackle to the front of the spring? If this is such a benefit then why do jeeps do shackle reversals to move the shackle to the rear of the spring??
Thanks
Jeff
The reason they do the shackle reversal is cuz some claim it handles better. I did a shackle reversal on my Scout years ago an felt NO difference at all. When I later did a spring over lift I went back to the shackle in the front.

The main reason I did it was cuz the pinion angle will get better as the passenger side wheel drops.

Some people say the shackle in the front is gay,dangerous or REALLY ill handling. If it was really so bad then why does Jeep still use it from the factory? I myself like it. Probly wouldn't work as good for high speed pre running but if I was doing desert racing or pre running I probly be running twin I beam with about 20" of wheel travel and no front axle.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OOP'S said:
Back view
I noticed that you went threw the frame with your front shackle mounting. And you had an IFS truck which had to be alot more work than just welding a spring hanger to the bottom of your frame. So with me having an 85 and the hole already going threw the frame, I am tring to figure out why some people decide to do the under the frame shackle mount and why some decide to use the stock threw the frame location? I am tring to decide on the mounting location of my front shackle and why one mounting technique may be better than the other???
 

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Discussion Starter #19
ErikB said:
2" drop front hanger, holes for stock front/rear location and 1" forward.

Started out w/ stock Toy front springs w/ Rancho main leaf and home made 4" shackles under the frame. Big shim under the spring to maintain decent caster (i.e.- not too much)



Changed over to 4" AP springs and home made 5" shackles through the frame. Same over all lift. Mucho better, IMHO. No more shim either.



Lots more info here:

http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer/sas.html
Ok, I will bite. How where you able to use 4" AP springs and get that kind of shackle angle when especially moving the front hanger 1 " foward with the drop box? Your 4" AP springs are the same size as mine which are 45.5" long. Makes the shackle stand straight up and down.
 

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Roc Dog said:


Ok, I will bite. How where you able to use 4" AP springs and get that kind of shackle angle when especially moving the front hanger 1 " foward with the drop box? Your 4" AP springs are the same size as mine which are 45.5" long. Makes the shackle stand straight up and down.
It doesn't say on his site but if he is using the long travel fronts that would help the shackle angle compaired to your's,I think it would anyway. The 4" All Pro long travel fronts are 1" longer than the standard 4" All Pro's.
 
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