[DogDenII]

Alright folks, any input would be greatly appreciated.

88 4Runner 3.0 SR5 Bone Stock -

Start the truck and it intially idles @ around 1200 RPM's (too high)
The truck will run for about 8-10 minutes, the gas gauge drops to "E", and the engine will start missing. At this point, when the truck is shut down, it will NOT restart for a few days.

Other things noticed:

The exhaust is "extremely" hot out the pipe
The exhaust stinks
The "new" fuel regulator "hisses" when the key is turned to the on position.
Pressure builds up in the tank whether or not the truck is started
The PO had NO idea how to install a radio so I can't just "Turn it up" :flipoff2:

Once I get this thing running right, It's going to get SAS'd, so the sooner the better.

Thanks -

Jon

 

[2stroke]

the high idle and hot exhaust tell me its running lean. fuel pressure? pluged fuel filter? try and check the computer codes. plugged cat? unhook before the cat and run? some ideas to start u off.

 

[DogDenII]

the high idle and hot exhaust tell me its running lean. fuel pressure? pluged fuel filter? try and check the computer codes. plugged cat? unhook before the cat and run? some ideas to start u off.

OK, just went out and started the 4runner. It started up, I ran it for about one min and turned it off. It would not start back up. Cranks over but will not start. Disconnected the Batt for about 10 min and hooked it back up, it started right up. Now, if you do this when it is at operating temp it will not start back up.

I pulled the plugs and they were completely black and coated in carbon. Not wet at all. It's definitely running lean. I'll pull the filter and replace it but it seems to be getting fuel just fine. It just seems to be something that heats up and then quits.

Is there a relay in the fuel system somewhere that I am missing? The codes were the first thing that I checked but the ECU puts out the same thing every time. Normal Operation. I'll run the truck tonight to see if I get a glow from the cat.

Thanks

 

[OffroadRunner]

circuit opening relay???? worth checking. Also I lost the gronfd from the AFM. Mine would run for a minuite then quit. Worth a check.

 

[zags]

Sounds like a ground problem to me too. Check where the negative battery cable attaches to the inner fender well for corrosion or looseness. Also check the ground at the fuel tank.
The rivet that holds it on can to the sender bracket can become loose or rusted.

 

[DogDenII]

circuit opening relay???? worth checking. Also I lost the gronfd from the AFM. Mine would run for a minuite then quit. Worth a check.

I was looking at the wiring diagrams yesterday and saw the citcuit opening relay behind the passengers speaker. I can't seem to find any information about what exacty it is supposed to do. A relay problem would certainly explain the situation.

We started the truck and pulled the afm connection, there was no check engine light when pulled which tells us that the afm has a good ground. Also, we pulled the coil wire and turned the key to on which gave us the check engine light. We started to crank to see if the check engine light would go off. It did not so now we know that the ecm relay is also good. It's a long process of illimation.

Thanks for the heads up on ideas.

 

[DogDenII]

Sounds like a ground problem to me too. Check where the negative battery cable attaches to the inner fender well for corrosion or looseness. Also check the ground at the fuel tank.
The rivet that holds it on can to the sender bracket can become loose or rusted.

Zags -

I originally considered a ground to be a problem. However, how does that explain it starting up, running until operating temp, and then missing? I'll check everything you mentioned since it could certainly be something that easy. Damn, wouldn't that be nice.

Thanks Man!

 

[zags]

Zags -

I originally considered a ground to be a problem. However, how does that explain it starting up, running until operating temp, and then missing? I'll check everything you mentioned since it could certainly be something that easy. Damn, wouldn't that be nice.

Thanks Man!

Sometimes it takes some time for heat to build up due to the high resistance in the bad ground for it to start acting up.
Is the ground strap at the back of the head hooked up?

 

[DogDenII]

Sometimes it takes some time for heat to build up due to the high resistance in the bad ground for it to start acting up.
Is the ground strap at the back of the head hooked up?

WHATCHATALKINABOUTWILLIS??


I didn't know one existed on the 3.0 ??

I've been using www.e-toolbox.com/ads/

 

[Reno Rich]

troubleshooting

Yes, there is a ground strap, I believe it's on the back of my '92's pass side head. Have you checked the cat yet? Smelly and/or hot exhaust always suggests a bad cat to me.

 

[Polar]

wouldent "I pulled the plugs and they were completely black and coated in carbon" be a rich condition. Take a look at the TPS or swap it out to trouble shoot.
What happens when u stomp on the gas when it is running hesitation, black smoke?

dave

 

[DogDenII]

Re: troubleshooting

Yes, there is a ground strap, I believe it's on the back of my '92's pass side head. Have you checked the cat yet? Smelly and/or hot exhaust always suggests a bad cat to me.

The cat checks out fine.
The ground strap is fine.

Is there an "easy" way to find a bad ground?

 

[DogDenII]

wouldent "I pulled the plugs and they were completely black and coated in carbon" be a rich condition. Take a look at the TPS or swap it out to trouble shoot.
What happens when u stomp on the gas when it is running hesitation, black smoke?

dave

You are completey right about running rich. I was thinking rich and wrote lean. Thanks!

The TPS checked out fine also.

White ploom when you mash the gas.

 

[davefj40]

has the gas tank been removed lately or the charcol canister messed with? could be the gas tank vent/return lines switched. my buddy did this when swapping a motor and it did the same thing. does it run better with the gas cap removed?

dave

 

[ZUK]

White smoke coming out of the exhaust? That sounds LEAN to me.....but you said the plugs were black and that sounds RICH. Sounds like that Runner has numerous issues. Give us some history on it. Like when was the last time it ran good. Is this involving an engine transplant? How long has it been sitting in storage. Did anybody put an egg yoke or sugar in the gastank.....

 

[DogDenII]

has the gas tank been removed lately or the charcol canister messed with? could be the gas tank vent/return lines switched. my buddy did this when swapping a motor and it did the same thing. does it run better with the gas cap removed?
dave

What's up Dave?

As far as I am aware, nothing has been messed with. I'll give the story in response to Zuk.

 

[DogDenII]

White smoke coming out of the exhaust? That sounds LEAN to me.....but you said the plugs were black and that sounds RICH. Sounds like that Runner has numerous issues. Give us some history on it. Like when was the last time it ran good. Is this involving an engine transplant? How long has it been sitting in storage. Did anybody put an egg yoke or sugar in the gastank.....

Zuk -

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the numerous issues.

This history on this runner is going to be Hear-Say only so I would have to take that with a grain of salt.

It was an ebay runner in NJ
The story goes round and round but the long story short is this:

This guy bought the 4runner and drove it for a few months, started to have a problem with the truck shutting itself down, took it to a less-then-average mechanic who replaced: Fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel regulator, ALL injectors, etc. He spent lots of this guys money and the problem was never solved. He had teh 4runner towed out of the guys shop when the mechanic said it had to be the igniter. 400+ bones. We picked it up from NJ, towed it home, and here we are now.

I have an igniter on the way (hard to find for the 88).
I have the FSM on the way (cheap ebay find)

I'm familiar with toys since I have the 84 PU w/duals and have had it apart on numerous occassions. I'll probably end up just doing the same thing here and testing each and every component. I was hoping that someone would have already encountered this problem and would have closer to definate answer. I was really hoping to get this figured out before the V6 Tranny adapter to run duals came in. That's not going to happen.

Thanks!

 

[ZUK]

Well that's an interesting story.....I don't think it helped me but it was a good read Maybe it was even in a car wreck and sometimes some of the wiring harness gets cut/pinched and that causes grief.
So I'm figuring alot of hands have been into this Runner and some things may have gotten screwed up. Start with the absolute basics and verify all vac lines are right. Check all electrical connectors and inspect exposed wiring harness. Engine codes? Got any?

The one thing that bothers me and I would be suspicious of a broken wire is the Fuel Guage needle going to empty..........I have an 88 Runner also so I know you can flip the rear seat and take off the service cover for the top of gastank fuel pump access. Jiggle those wires. Inspect them. Check for anything that the dumbass mechanics missed or screwed up. Probably not a bad idea to BYPASS/SHORT out the check connector up front near the AFM near the fenderwell that turns the Fuel pump on/off. It's a so called safety feature of a sort and is not needed. By shorting it means that everytime you have the key to IGNITION that you should be able to hear the FP running.

 

[DogDenII]

ZUK - I've got a really dumb question for you first off.

Your suggestion of bypassing the the check connector. When I turn the key to the "on" position, I hear the fuel being pushed through the regulator. Is this "normal" ? The engine isn't started, the key is just in the "on" position.

There have been WAY too many hands in this pot and it's been apparent from the start.

We went through the vacuum first:
There was no purge line on the charcoal canister. The purge should have been going to the BVSV. So, I check the BVSV which had the line attached that "should" have been on the purge. However, I traced it and it was just sitting "pinched" closed under the manifold. I pulled that line completely and routed it to the purge. Nothing changed. I've used this: http://www.e-toolbox.com/application/8578/chiltonimages/8578/85784142L.gif

It's a good thing the 84 is still trail worthy. This could take some time.

I appreciate the help!

 

[OffroadRunner]

pump runs for a few sacs when the ign is tunred on. It will also run on start up until you let the key back to run. Then the AFM takes over and turns the pump on for the 3rd time.