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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Currently trying to figure out how I'm going to package in my panhard brackets on my rig to clear everything. Rig is a '98 Tacoma with stock frame btw

My front end is a '93 Ford D60 w/crossover steering
Toy IFS Steering box (rear-swing)
Sky Offroad high steer arm on the passenger side, steering link mounted on the bottom (for up-travel clearance)
Tie-Rod is running below the factory arms, using Chevy off-set tie rods from RuffStuff - also running PSC 1.5"x8" hydro assist with Trail-Gear 1450 PSI pump and a Chevy application PS cooler (none of this mounted and haven't figured out which reservoir to run yet either)

My problem is, my draglink is about 44 1/2" and having some issues trying to figure out how to get my panhard to the same length. As it is, it looks like my axle side is going to be leaning forward a bit to leave room for the coilover mounts and have to be pretty much right on top of my inner-C. For the frame side, it's going to be kicked out several inches outside of the frame and looks like some bends around the pumpkin to clear at full-stuff. Also considered notching the frame to bring the steering box in about 2-3" without interfering with the alternator and having room for steering linkage. That would get me down to around 42" or so for the drag link, but it's still pretty long.

Just curious what other people have done with their setups to keep the numbers in check and limit bump steer. I've seen a lot of people going with inverted T steering, but not a big fan of that setup based on past experience with it. Really hoping to keep my steering links nice and flat and retain the steering arm I just shelled out the cash on (along with the machine work). Pics would be MUCH appreciated!!
 

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Have you thought about running the Chevy y-style steering, to help shorten the draglink. Or the possibility of using Saginaw steering box I.e. Mounted inside the frame.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had actually been looking at frenching the IFS box into the frame for the clearance, but I think the Saginaw box idea might actually be even better. I've had the Chevy Y-Style steering on my old TJ and I just really hated that dead spot feeling when driving it down the road so really trying to avoid that setup. I have seen where a lot of guys were using some sort of bushing to eliminate that wobble and roll, but I'd still like to avoid that setup if at all possible. Not to mention, I've got a few hundred dollars into getting my passenger knuckle machined and the Sky Offroad steering arm that is working out to make my draglink completely flat.

From what I have read, it looks like people are typically using the Jeep J-20 Saginaw style box (800 series Saginaw) 4.2 turn setup. If I can get that fit between the radiator and the frame rails, I think that just might be the ticket right there! Either that, or it will be another steering box in my growing pile of steering options :D

Anybody need a FZJ80 steering box?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Anyone have any input on whether to go with the J20 style, 4 turn box vs. something like a '96-'98 Grand Cherokee box? From what I read the J20 is about a 10:1 ratio, and the Grand Cherokee is about a 12.4:1 - ratio but I didn't find anything about how many turns it is lock to lock.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mostly because to get it even close, it will have to have a good portion of the bracket over the inner-C on the passenger side and still extend about 6" off of the frame side. If I just go as long as I can without that driver's side bracket sticking out so far, I think it will be a good 5-6" shorter than the drag link. I'm hoping to drive this to the trails as much as possible (Fordyce, Rubicon, Barrett Lake, etc.) and eliminate as much bump steer as possible. Getting them parallel is going to be pretty straight forward and doable, it's just the length that's causing me issues.

And yeah.. I just said the length is causing me issues :homer:
 

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Why are you worried about the drivers side bracket sticking out? Mine is pushed out a little over 4 inches and is just fine. I'm running a steering setup pretty much identical to generalee's and it let me have the draglink and panhard the same exact length and angle
 

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Mostly because to get it even close, it will have to have a good portion of the bracket over the inner-C on the passenger side and still extend about 6" off of the frame side. If I just go as long as I can without that driver's side bracket sticking out so far, I think it will be a good 5-6" shorter than the drag link. I'm hoping to drive this to the trails as much as possible (Fordyce, Rubicon, Barrett Lake, etc.) and eliminate as much bump steer as possible. Getting them parallel is going to be pretty straight forward and doable, it's just the length that's causing me issues.

And yeah.. I just said the length is causing me issues :homer:
I hear ya. I don't see anything wrong with making it extend off the driver side frame that far. I shoved my axle side panhard bracket up to the C and welded it straight up from there and gave about 1/2" clearance all around for when the knuckle is fully turned left. I can see if I connected the drag link to the passenger hi-steer arm it would be 4ish inches longer than the drag panhard but it is what it is. You know how many non-ideal setups drive on the street? :laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Why are you worried about the drivers side bracket sticking out? Mine is pushed out a little over 4 inches and is just fine. I'm running a steering setup pretty much identical to generalee's and it let me have the draglink and panhard the same exact length and angle
My main thought on that was just the leverage forces applying against that bracket and hanging it so far out there. To get it just about dead-nuts even lengths, I'd have a bracket about 5 1/2" hanging off the frame with the axle side joint even with the casting on the inner C.


I hear ya. I don't see anything wrong with making it extend off the driver side frame that far. I shoved my axle side panhard bracket up to the C and welded it straight up from there and gave about 1/2" clearance all around for when the knuckle is fully turned left. I can see if I connected the drag link to the passenger hi-steer arm it would be 4ish inches longer than the drag panhard but it is what it is. You know how many non-ideal setups drive on the street? :laughing:
I think I may just get the axle side pushed as far over the inner-C as I can and then hang the other side out as far as I can clear and see how it reacts. I guess if it turns out to just handle like shit, I'll switch over to the Y-Style steering and mimic what some of the other guys did to eliminate the steering roll. I'm currently using an offset GM 1-ton TRE, but I think I can just barely clear a heim on the steering arms with just safety washers and no misalignment which would help quite a bit with the rolling effect

I did also go out there with a tape measure to look at Saginaw options. With all of the mounting styles that I've seen, there's just no way to get it to fit in there without having some weird shaped custom radiator built to fit around the housing or having it sit way further back on the frame than I need.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Just re measured my frame side panhard and it's outside of the frame 5.5 inches. Idk why I was thinking 4 earlier
Well damn... that's pretty much identical to what I need. Maybe it's just a bigger deal in my head than what it actually is going to be. How long have you ran it that way, and any issues with the frame around that area with the leverage of the panhard sitting so far out, or did you just put in a lot of reinforcement around the frame and mount? Any chance you could snap a pic of how your frame side mount is setup?
 

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I haven't ran it since I'm not done but I have absolutely no concerns with the mount. I bent the mount so it has a pretty large footprint on the frame and I bent 1/4" around the frame tying into the bracket on the bottom and all the way down on the outside of the bracket. It would literally have to rip my whole frame off to fail. Pm me your number and I can send you a picture tomorrow
 

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My main thought on that was just the leverage forces applying against that bracket and hanging it so far out there. To get it just about dead-nuts even lengths, I'd have a bracket about 5 1/2" hanging off the frame with the axle side joint even with the casting on the inner C.
Unless you are moving your motor back 8"s the sag box is not going to be easy. So incase its not do able. Run a support bar from the panhard frame bracket to the passenger frame rail. Should help eliminate frame twist and give extra support.
 

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Also were did you get your previous y-style steering system. I asking because I ran this for many years on my runner and never felt the dead spot you're talking about. But I have customers that have bought really cheap tre's and said there was a dead spot only to find out later that the tre's were loose straight out of the box.
 

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Yeah on my ranger with a 60 and coil springs hysteer i couldn't get it close it's like 8" shorter. Its parallel at ride height. I'm running a Toyota box outside the frame 5" up 7" droop and I've jumped it and can't feel any bump steer. Just build it and run it you'll be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I haven't ran it since I'm not done but I have absolutely no concerns with the mount. I bent the mount so it has a pretty large footprint on the frame and I bent 1/4" around the frame tying into the bracket on the bottom and all the way down on the outside of the bracket. It would literally have to rip my whole frame off to fail. Pm me your number and I can send you a picture tomorrow
Sounds good, and I'm probably going to steal your idea when I see your pic :smokin: Just PM'd you my number for when you get a chance to snag that picture.

Unless you are moving your motor back 8"s the sag box is not going to be easy. So incase its not do able. Run a support bar from the panhard frame bracket to the passenger frame rail. Should help eliminate frame twist and give extra support.
Yeah, that idea might work as well. I'll have to see if I can tuck something real close to the motor. I've got another crossmember just underneath the radiator that will help with some of the twist, but I definitely wouldn't mind having something right next to or right inline with that mount to firm it up a bit. Then again, maybe I'm overcomplicating the whole thing :homer:

Also were did you get your previous y-style steering system. I asking because I ran this for many years on my runner and never felt the dead spot you're talking about. But I have customers that have bought really cheap tre's and said there was a dead spot only to find out later that the tre's were loose straight out of the box.
I actually got it years back from another pretty reputable vendor on here. It just always had a weird feel to it. Turning left to right, you could always feel the tie rod having to roll before it reacted and then that kind of dead spot in the middle where TREs had the ability to kind of wobble before you got any real feedback from the steering. Just made me never feel really confident in that setup. I found this pic from a quick google search, but this is pretty much what my steering looked like before on my old rig (was a TJ with a 9"/44 combo):



Yeah on my ranger with a 60 and coil springs hysteer i couldn't get it close it's like 8" shorter. Its parallel at ride height. I'm running a Toyota box outside the frame 5" up 7" droop and I've jumped it and can't feel any bump steer. Just build it and run it you'll be fine.
Good to hear others with not so "perfect" setups are running good. They'll definitely be parallel, and just within a couple of degrees of parallel with the ground at ride height as well.

Thanks a ton guys, now just gotta build some templates and grab some metal and get to building my brackets.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah, got 'em thanks! I actually just replied to your text a minute ago. I didn't hear it last night so I was just looking at my phone and checking at the bracket and how it was wrapped around the frame.

I couldn't tell if you had wrapped just the top, backside and bottom of the frame to reinforce the frame or if that 1/4" wrapped the frame and the bracket?

In any case, thanks and it's good to see someone has already built exactly what I need to do as well. To wrap your frame, did you just heat and bend that plate around or get something custom bent up?
 

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You had the dead spot because of the operating angle and bend in the draglink.

This was my setup on my old 4runner with the Chevy Y-link steering. This performed flawlessly with my Ford box. I ran stock 85 axle steering arms with the j-arm cut off. I reamed them for the 1ton rod ends. It pushes the tierod another 2" further forward compared to stock arms. So, they were 8" forward of the trunion just like a 1 ton axle. Ream them from the top and go tie-rod over. And, don't bend the draglink.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah, it was at an angle like that, but without bends so that was probably the issue. I'm actually running a balljoint axle, so it takes some custom machining for the hi-steer arms. I think I'm going to mimic what sasaholic did with his bracket and then I should be able to get everything packaged in there pretty nice.

If it doesn't work out, I'll tear down the driver's side again, get it machined and get the matching driver's side arm and go pretty close to what you show there. Only difference would be that for my setup, I'd probably still go with tie rod under the arms as that's pretty much the sweet spot for everything in the steering to sit nice and flat.
 
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