fullsize on radius arms

3450 Views 30 Replies 13 Participants Last post by low_range, Dec 3, 2006

motorcitydak

Discussion Starter · Nov 24, 2006

im plannin on buildin a buggy soon and want to use a bronco/150 front 44 with radius arms. I just need some help from you guys. I was checkin out the arm system from james duff for 700 bucks and mite run em. Do the coils mount on top of the arm? how long are they? How far apart are the frame mounts? and how well do they flex? thanks

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plug ugly

· #2 · Nov 24, 2006

IM running the cage arms (original designer of the duff arms) on my fullsize bronco and love them. Yes they are pricey, but when you price out tube, heims, etc for linking your own kit, the price isnt really that bad. the nice thing about the cage arms, is that he now has a kit that does away with the wedges and C bushings.

The coils mount on top, and the arms are roughly 43inches long from back of axle tube to center of heim. they flex very well, and are very strong

cageoffroad.com

68Broncoholic

· #3 · Nov 29, 2006

I run the Cage arms and use the weld on brackets. Use Cage over Duff cause they have a few more extra mods like angled skid plates on the frame mounts and beefier here and there. They flex very well.

welndmn

· #4 · Nov 29, 2006

Make a simple radius arm 3 link setup.
IMO C bushing suck, and you should do everything you can to dump them

OX

· #5 · Nov 29, 2006

welndmn said:
Make a simple radius arm 3 link setup.
IMO C bushing suck, and you should do everything you can to dump them

Thats what I thought and then I wheeled several times with my buddies 89 with cage arms. Talk about flex

:cool2:.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/460854/fullsize/kevinflex112606.mov

VerticalTRX

· #6 · Nov 29, 2006

I wouldn't spend money on high-zoot aftermarket arms. I built a set of extended arms for my '79 F-150 for about $35 in materials and some welding rods. I'd bet money that they are stronger than the aftermarket ones. They are also longer, mine are about 47" from axle centerline to center of bushing.

OX

· #7 · Nov 29, 2006

VerticalTRX said:
I wouldn't spend money on high-zoot aftermarket arms. I built a set of extended arms for my '79 F-150 for about $35 in materials and some welding rods. I'd bet money that they are stronger than the aftermarket ones. They are also longer, mine are about 47" from axle centerline to center of bushing.

And some day when you get a real tire they will rub like a MF........ :flipoff2:

I agree CAGE stuff is pricey, but it works. Arms are nicley bent in and allow full steering, even with something like a 44 bogger.

b-ronk

· #8 · Nov 29, 2006 (Edited)

I will be driving my rig out to the trails again as soon as the rebuild is complete. I have the Duff arms and like the dampening those big "C" bushings give you in addition to the bushings in the radius arms. It flexes great, clears 40's, and is a nicer ride than all hiem links. If and when I get to make a trailer queen it will be linked with hiems front and rear. I run the 6" Superflex coils. Good luck!

I'd support Cage if I had it to do over again. He designed the Duffs and has made inprovements. You can eliminate the wedges and "c"s if you want too. Sounds like they have nice PROGRESSIVE rate coils as well.
http://www.cageoffroad.com/solidaxleswap.asp

VerticalTRX

· #9 · Nov 29, 2006

OX said:
And some day when you get a real tire they will rub like a MF........ :flipoff2:

I agree CAGE stuff is pricey, but it works. Arms are nicley bent in and allow full steering, even with something like a 44 bogger.

This rig was never intended to run anything bigger than 36's. Q78's are going on it this weekend, and as long as they clear thats all I care about.

Furthermore, if I were going to run bigger tires, and therefore a D60 front, I wouldn't waste time putting radius arms back on it, a 3 link would be a much better option. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

low_range

· #10 · Nov 29, 2006

Yeah the Cage radius arm/superflex coil combo works great. I love it, full steering from lock to lock with no rubbing even with 42" Iroks, flexes like mad, and still cruises nice on the street. Id definitely recommend it.
I went with the C-bushings so i can play with the caster easily (altho they didnt have the weld-on brackets when i ordered my arms anyways), but if you dont care about that or know youre never going to need to change it than you can get their weld-on brackets and youll never have to worry about the c-bushings.

welndmn

· #11 · Nov 29, 2006

OX said:
Thats what I thought and then I wheeled several times with my buddies 89 with cage arms. Talk about flex :cool2:.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/460854/fullsize/kevinflex112606.mov

Many of my friends run them, I think the cage product is a good product, just C bushings suck. The C's wobble and create axle wrap, they all do, watch a radius arm rig with C bushing climb something.
You can get those Cage weld-on brackets to use the arms, that way you don't use a C bushing, but by then you have 1,000$ into a set of radius arms.

thesprocket26

· #12 · Nov 30, 2006

kind of on the same note, what coil springs are you all using on the front? I have a lifted set but they are way too stiff and allow no flex. What do you reccomend for a fullsize truck? Its a crawler that needs lots of flex.

low_range

· #13 · Nov 30, 2006

superflex coils, hands down

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OX

· #14 · Nov 30, 2006

welndmn said:
Many of my friends run them, I think the cage product is a good product, just C bushings suck. The C's wobble and create axle wrap, they all do, watch a radius arm rig with C bushing climb something.
You can get those Cage weld-on brackets to use the arms, that way you don't use a C bushing, but by then you have 1,000$ into a set of radius arms.

So what if it works. You get much better pinion to driveshaft angle at full droop on the diff side over a 3 link. You don't have to worry about trashing 600$ worth of rod ends from all the mudding you end up doing trying to rock crawl here in the NE, you don't have to make a huge truss to make sure you don't spin axle tubes form putting all the anti-torque forces through one side of the diff.

I always thought a 3 link would be better, as it should flex better than radius arms. I've been proven wrong, how much more flex could you actually get to work (assuming tire clearances, driveshaft angles, etc...) than that above pic. Lose the C-bushings if you don't like them, but somone needs to tell me why (specifically) a 3link is better as I'm not seeing it (literally).

b-ronk

· #15 · Nov 30, 2006 (Edited)

thesprocket26 said:
kind of on the same note, what coil springs are you all using on the front? I have a lifted set but they are way too stiff and allow no flex. What do you reccomend for a fullsize truck? Its a crawler that needs lots of flex.

Ditto on the Superflex springs, though I would check into a custom made or perhaps someone makes a progressive rate coil that would flex as well but get stiffer towards the bottom. I know Cage has them for the early Broncs.

The limiting factor on this ramp was the rear leafs springs. I have since removed a leaf and get better flex all the way around ( you can see that the drivers rear wheel is not fully stuffed).

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mj

· #16 · Nov 30, 2006

I am interested in the 3 link truck that was proven inferior to the cage arms.
any links to this lemon?

plug ugly

· #17 · Nov 30, 2006 (Edited)

yeah mark, I think you exagerate the pinion wrap caused by C bushings, it just really hasnt been an issue for any of us. I you are gonna use Dave as an example, I think he had a lot more going on there than C bushings. Leaf fronts wrap more IMO. Yeah, a 3 r 4 may have less, but I havent seen it be aproblem. I would like to get rid of my C bushings or the fact that they wear out, and it eliminates the possibility of shearing the cap bolts.

I tried to price out what a rear 4 link would cost the other day. these are VERY rough prices

Rod Ends
4x60=240
4x40=160

Alignment bushings
8x18=160

Brackets(if you dont make your own)
approx 60 bucks

Tube inserts for all, call it 40 bucks

and then tube at how many dollars a foot for 2x.25 and 1.5 or 1.75 bu 120 or 188?

So before tube you are talking ROUGHLY 650, and Im guessing 8 to 10 bucks a foot call it a 20 ft stick, so 160 there and your fab time.

Again, ROUGH numbers, but i dont see the time/money versus quality comparison.

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VerticalTRX

· #18 · Nov 30, 2006

OX said:
So what if it works. You get much better pinion to driveshaft angle at full droop on the diff side over a 3 link. You don't have to worry about trashing 600$ worth of rod ends from all the mudding you end up doing trying to rock crawl here in the NE, you don't have to make a huge truss to make sure you don't spin axle tubes form putting all the anti-torque forces through one side of the diff.

I always thought a 3 link would be better, as it should flex better than radius arms. I've been proven wrong, how much more flex could you actually get to work (assuming tire clearances, driveshaft angles, etc...) than that above pic. Lose the C-bushings if you don't like them, but somone needs to tell me why (specifically) a 3link is better as I'm not seeing it (literally).

First off, I'm not bashing radius arms, I have them on my '79 and they work great. However, if I were to start with a bare axle and frame I would not add radius arms.

The advantages of a three-link:
-more flex 'can' be achieved
-castor angle stays the same throughout the suspension arc (not as important in the rocks)
-suspension is fully tuneable
-can be lighter weight
-more options for design if building from the ground up

welndmn

· #19 · Nov 30, 2006

OX said:
So what if it works. You get much better pinion to driveshaft angle at full droop on the diff side over a 3 link. ).

WHAT?
Your are nuts! I think the 3 link you saw must of been a poor design.

Damon - Pinion Wrap is there, I've seen it on yours and Bills, and even pointed it out to bill and let him see it. You may not see it if you always replace your C bushings, but after a few runs, its back

.

plug ugly

· #20 · Dec 1, 2006

Im not denying that there is some wrap. my point was that there has been no issues due to the little wrap there is

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