Pirate 4x4 banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, hoping there are a few of you out there with some extensive Samurai wiring harness experience. Almost done with the wiring on the buggy.. but having a problem with the fuel and water temp gauges. The way I understand it is.. both of those should be recieving voltage from somewhere in the cluster and passing it on to the appropriate sending units. Neither of mine have power.. anyone know where they get that power from? I've found the 2 posts on the back of the cluster that are associated with them.. and when I apply 12v, they move all the way up through their range of motion.. so the cluster is still okay.

Just an update in case you haven't checked out the buggy build thread.. this is a complete custom wiring job.. no part of the Samurai harness still exists in the buggy.. what do I need to do to make these work??

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,131 Posts
Each guage should have two wires running to it. One side of each gauge should recieve power when the ignition is on. The other side runs to the sending unit and is the ground of the circuit. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Vermin said:
extensive Samurai wiring harness experience
Hey... not me!

Vermin said:
TTT - Anyone
Well, since ANYone is invited...

Vermin said:
should be recieving voltage from somewhere in the cluster and passing it on to the appropriate sending units.
Yes. The current grounds through the senders. You may be dealing with an injured set of gauges here. As far as I know, the gauges and their regulator, are fed 12v.

Vermin said:
anyone know where they get that power from?
See diagram at:
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/gaugewiring.jpg

And please let me know if you can't get to it. I have just started using space on Yahoo.

I am wondering if the gauges are suffering from the common and mysterious 'peg-out' syndrome. Mine were. Gary of PWorks told us that a wire burns in two on the supply side of the gauge. One gauge has a sort of regulator [1], and supplies the other gauge too. Mine, actually two of my gauge sets, had wires burned between the actual gauge coil [2] and the regulator coil. Maybe why I got them so cheap. I took a piece of wire-wrap wire and soldered it into place with care and low-heat. Works just fine. I haven't confirmed this, but I seem to remember that the way it is wired that the guages will go to zero if the sensors are disconnected. If you applied current to the right spot (I also will check that, but the caveat still applies) and the sensors are gone, I think the needles shouldn't move as current shouldnt flow. Except through the regulator coil, so an ohmmeter will show an electrical path.

I am thinking that maybe a close examination of your gauges would be the next stop, or a swap with 'known good' ones.

[1] The regulator, which is built into one gauge, has a bi-metal strip with a set of contacts. (Conventional) Current flows through these points before going through the coil on the regulator's bi-metal strip. If the voltage (thus current) gets too high, the bi-metal strip gets hot enough to open the points, interrupting the source current to the gauges. It may quickly cycle open and shut, thus protecting the gauges.. not sure.

[2] Each gauge has a coil of nickel-chrome (resistor) wire wrapped around a bi-metal strip. As the current flows through the coil, it heats the strip, which bends and mechanically moves the needle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
These ARE 'known good' gauges. I'm going to take apart a second gauge cluster tonight and find out for sure where the wiring goes.. it's not on any diagram.. trust me.

The gauges will 'peg out' if I apply 12v to the back post on the cluster. Otherwise.. they don't do jack crap :D I'll do more digging tonight..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,995 Posts
normally the gauges are powered by a commom 12v, then run out to the sender for ground.
are you using the stock cluster or no?

if you are using the stock cluster, there should be a commom wire or whatever you want to call it on the back of the cluster.
follow those to the plug and see if you are getting 12v there.
t
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
719 Posts
I am builing a buggy also and I had the same exact problem. You probably wont believe me but the little wire that goes from one of the three bolts on the distributor elbow housing was not attached to ground. that was my problem. I can take it off and both the guages don't work. hope that helps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Hey Geo, your link doesn't work! And if you have a diagram of ALL of the INTERNAL wiring in the factory gauge cluster.. more power to ya.. I'd love to see it. Might save me from canabalizing another good cluster..

Tipover: That ground wire is connected and not the issue for me.. strange tho.. that wire of all things would cause those two to fail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Vermin said:
Hey Geo, your link doesn't work!
Thanks. I was foolin' with it last night. I dunno what is wrong, but for me, if I copied the URL that the link was attempting to go to, then pasted it into another instance of the browser, it did work. Please let me know if THIS works. Or not. Just go to page 21.1 in the FSM.

if you have a diagram of ALL of the INTERNAL wiring in the factory gauge cluster
Well, I looked at it again, I can't figger what might be missing...

You might wanna cannabalize the loom that the cluster cam out of, to get the flat plastic ribbon cable that connects to the cluster. The diagram has color-codes for the wires, I am guessing again that you would find these farther back in the loom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
I would not bypass that safety wire that burns out with a larger piece of wire,that is what keeps the extra current out of the reostat(sending unit)in your gas tank so that in case some how your alternators regulator goes nuts or somebuddy by passes your cluster's regulator with 12 volts or more, your gas tank won't blow up! :mad3:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So, got your link to work Geo. Same pic I have in my FSM.. so we're looking at the same thing. Following the wiring around.. looks like they should get their power from several places.. at least one being the black with white stripe wire on the left (diagram) side.. that IS hooked to 12v on mine.. sooooo.. I'm totally lost. Time to rip it apart :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
MRfuelish said:
I would not bypass that safety wire that burns out
I don't believe it is a safety wire, but I sure could be wrong. It seems to be a design flaw. Yes, i would like to avoid an explosion, at least on my way to work cuz I might be a tad late, and what could i tell em? :) That is an interesting thought though.

It would be interesting to put all these components in series for a test, and see what amperage/voltage we are looking at in the tank. I have a spare sender maybe i will do it someday.

Another issue to test would be to see if a flame waaay down in the tank could find enough oxygen to sustain combustion. Might not, I dunno. The high vapor pressure of gasoline may mean that it pushes the O2 out. Comments on this are welcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Problem solved. So, my big bundle of hanging wire must have shorted out a few things.. one of them being this TINY wire on the fuel level gauge.. that wire passes power along to the water temp gauge.. sooo, I musta popped it while running wires all willy nilly. The wiring diagram is a bit misleading.. it's hardly as simple as they diagram it out to be.. but on the other hand, its not really too hard either.. now that I've had it all apart and see how it REALLY works. Over that bump now.. on to finish the wiring.. wish me luck!!

On a side note, I'd hardly worry about a fuel tank fire due to the sending unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Vermin said:
one of them being this TINY wire on the fuel level gauge
Yep. That's the wire that always seems to fry.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top