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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm tired of shifting my T19 wide and want an overdrive for those highway trips. I'm going to start collecting the parts to put a GM 700R4 trans behind my 345. I figure my best bet is to find a donor Chevy/GMC Suburban or Blazer up to I believe 92' so I can get the trans and matching t case(and hopefully a TBI setup to boot:D . Anyone know what tcase was in those? Low range gearing? Any suggestions on other tcases to use?(Atlas is out of my budget) I'm hoping I can acquire all the necessary parts and adapters for under $2000. Obviously I will be doing the install myself.

I should add that my bro Mike is doing this same thing right now for a customer of his but went with a Dana20 tcase. The adapter for that alone was $700:eek: . Mike took went about it this way: rebuilt 700R4 - $1200, engine adapter to trans $500+/-, adapter from trans to tcase - $700. Add driveline mods and labor for install and you can see it adds up quick.

I know the aluminum cased chain driven tcase will hold up for I have rebuilt them before. I just can't remember what tcase it was and what the low range was. So post up with what you know.

Jeff
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Why would you take the tranny, t-case, and FI but not run the Chebbie engine?
 

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208's started in 80 through 87 in pickups blazers and suburbans.
In 88 and 89 blazers and suburbans got 241's and stayed with right side output with straight axles . The pickups went to left hand output with 241's. 241's are purported to oil better and be stronger. I have opened up a few 241's and never found any shavings or signs or wear in any of them. If you have a problem finding a 241 I have one, and a 700 I would like to get rid of.

I don't know the thickness of the engine to trans adapter, but the one I used (not IH engine) was 5/16 thick. I had the torque converter mounting pads and nose extended by that amount rather than using washers and indexing pilot that came with the adapter. A much better solution IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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Why would you take the tranny, t-case, and FI but not run the Chebbie engine?

Several reasons. My 345 runs killer, is freshly rebuilt($$$ already invested), and will outlast a Chebbie motor 3 to 1(especially the way I drive:D ). If I can score the TBI also, it would be for a different rig since I have a new Edelbrock Q-jet that runs just fine.

Chris, Thanks for the info. Do you recall what low range those tcases are? I want to say 2.72-1 but just can't remember. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the 208 an iron case? I know the 241 is aluminum. Appreciate the offer on the tcase and trans but will more than likely I'll be able to easily find something locally.

Anyone know if a heep Dana300 will directly bolt up behind the 700R4?

Jeff
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Both are aluminum and 2.72 The 700R4 has a 27 spline imput, Heep 300 is 23, but I am sure AA has something that would work.

For a quick and dirty fab up get a crossmember from a GM from like 73 till the mid 80's. The crossmember used with the 241 has a hump to allow the exhaust to go under it. The earlier ones allow the exhaust to run over the crossmember.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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Both are aluminum and 2.72 The 700R4 has a 27 spline imput, Heep 300 is 23, but I am sure AA has something that would work.

But then price again goes up for the parts to do the conversion. But thanks for that info.


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For a quick and dirty fab up get a crossmember from a GM from like 73 till the mid 80's. The crossmember used with the 241 has a hump to allow the exhaust to go under it. The earlier ones allow the exhaust to run over the crossmember.


Wheres the fun in that?:D
I'll take a look at it but usually I just pull out my trusty HF pipe bender and fab up whatever I need for a trick crossmember.

Thanks for the info,
Jeff
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Just splittin' hairs, but the 208 low range is 2.6. My IH supplier told me yesterday that AA has come up with an IH/700R4 adapter. Can anyone confirm this?
 

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tbriley said:
Just splittin' hairs, but the 208 low range is 2.6. My IH supplier told me yesterday that AA has come up with an IH/700R4 adapter. Can anyone confirm this?
It's been around for a while, but you can only get it through blackwood labs. AA isn't allowed, by contract so I'm told, to sell the adaptor directly. Contact [email protected]
 

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ihojeff said:


Anyone know if a heep Dana300 will directly bolt up behind the 700R4?

Jeff

No it will not. adapter from advance is in the area of $400..... i need to buy one for my swap.

if you do not get the tbi system i *may* be able to help you there....plus i'm already experienced at pulling them.... as long as the owner wants to sell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
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all for the overdrive? lot of work. Maybe you should consider a 727/reversed 203/d300....

Either way...highway gears are for suckers...


Troutbum, This Scout will wheel with the best of them and still will be able to after the conversion. This Scout is not only my wheeler, but is my daily driver when I (want it to be), will tow my car trailer, haul ass in the desert, take my family camping, Gather groceriers, and win at least second place in a beauty contest;) . After having both of my hips operated on in the past year I am about done with shifting gears. In the morning all I want to do is put my Scout in drive and go to work as I sip on my cup of coffee. Besides with what gears I have in it now and what I end up with after the conversion will be dam near the same(T19 6.32x2.62x4.09=67.7-1 700R4 ???x2.72x4.09=???).


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No it will not. adapter from advance is in the area of $400..... i need to buy one for my swap.

if you do not get the tbi system i *may* be able to help you there....plus i'm already experienced at pulling them.... as long as the owner wants to sell.

Thats what I thought. Thanks for verifying that. I'm pretty experienced in mechanics and fabrication as I am a wrench and a ASE Master Tech. The work is the easy part. Its earning the money to buy the parts and figure out what parts I need. Although there always is a technical question or two that I sometimes need opinion on from somebody else experienced;) .

Jeff
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Exactly my thought. By the time you build a 700r4 up you could easily afford the 4l80e. My "Newly Rebuilt" turbo 400 is dying as we speak. I had the guts of a wagoneer turbo 400 ( extra clutch pack) swapped into a chevy turbo 400 case and it was supposedly rebuilt at the same time. Well its slipping so bad it will barely hold first and reverse. Any ideas. Torque converter. It also won't shift from third to first if you come to a complete stop even. As for the 345/350 swap I did it and love it. Lots of weight loss and better acceleration and equal torque. The cheap parts thing also. Yes the international lasts longer but costs twice as much at least to rebuild when it pukes.
 

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DJForrestA said:
Exactly my thought. By the time you build a 700r4 up you could easily afford the 4l80e. My "Newly Rebuilt" turbo 400 is dying as we speak. I had the guts of a wagoneer turbo 400 ( extra clutch pack) swapped into a chevy turbo 400 case and it was supposedly rebuilt at the same time. Well its slipping so bad it will barely hold first and reverse. Any ideas. Torque converter. It also won't shift from third to first if you come to a complete stop even. As for the 345/350 swap I did it and love it. Lots of weight loss and better acceleration and equal torque. The cheap parts thing also. Yes the international lasts longer but costs twice as much at least to rebuild when it pukes.
Care to lay out your cost comparison between the 4L80E and a 700R4?:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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Care to lay out your cost comparison between the 4L80E and a 700R4?

Second that request. I figure it would be the same adapter. Do I need a stand alone computer for it or ??? Details on this swap.

And you guys don't think a 'built' 700R4 won't last under towing conditions? Clue me in on this. My knowledge on 700R4's is mostly heresay with little hands on. Test drove a shit load of GM trucks with this tranny in it but never owned one. Most I ever torn into one was just for filter and fluid swap. I'm under the assumption that if I have/get a 700R4 rebuilt that at the time of rebuild some mods can be done do it to make it pretty stout. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Jeff
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I did a lot of research on this before I went with a 4l80e. The 700 can be built pretty stout and should hold up behind a 345 unless you try to tow in high gear. Even built they won't take much abuse though. I've heard lots of horror stories about rebuilt units and would be really picky who I bought from. Nobody I called would warranty their trans for longer then 1 year.

The 4l80e goes for $500 to $1000+ on Ebay. An aftermarket computer is another $1k, but I did see one on Ebay go for under $500. Bad thing about the aftermarket computers is that they only have an one year warranty. I'm using a factory computer and programming my own chip. When the computer goes out I can buy a re-manufactured unit for $140 and plug in a spare custom chip.
 

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It's been around for a while, but you can only get it through blackwood labs. AA isn't allowed, by contract so I'm told, to sell the adaptor directly. Contact [email protected]
Thanks for the info TxSCOUT.

all for the overdrive? lot of work. Maybe you should consider a 727/reversed 203/d300....
Personally, I'll be happy when I get time to put this T-19 wide in, but I know of some "sucker" that is willing to shell out the money to put this in a fairly stock Scout. Can't say that I would'nt like one if I could put the funds together for a DD Scout.
 

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When I built my scout I was told for a complete rebuild with all the hardcore goodies on a 700 r4 I would be in it about 850 bucks. At the same time I looked at a used 4l80e at a wreckage for 1200 with the computer. My brother is a mechanic and he said I'd be nuts to run a 700r4 with 35s no matter what parts I had in it. Like others I've never had one in a truck but everyone says the same thing they don't take much abuse. I went with the turbo 400 to save money and for a beefy tranny and its dead after 500 miles so what the hell do I know? Anyway thats where my figures came from.
 

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ihojeff said:
QuoteAnd you guys don't think a 'built' 700R4 won't last under towing conditions? Clue me in on this. My knowledge on 700R4's is mostly heresay with little hands on. Jeff

Here's some of my hands on:

I have a '89 Suburban I bought new with a 350 and a 700R4 and 3.42 gears and 31 inch tires. I towed a 28 ft travel trailer over 100K with that setup. I towed nearly weekly 200 plus miles in the mountains, mostly in overdrive with no problems. I finally had it rebuilt with kevlar clutch packs and stiff servo springs and a new torque converter when I put in the third engine at 305,000 miles. I now have 52k on a new 500 ft lb 383 with 3.73 gears. I don't tow the trailer anymore but it'll boil both rear tires at will and squalls third gear. Man, is that rig UGLY!:D

I've heard the same crap about 700R4s being weak. Mostly from people who have never seen one. Not all of them were weak. The first couple years they were but GM addressed the problem. After all, the 700R4 and the 4L60E are basically a TH400 with overdrive and lockup TQ. Even the early ones can easily be beefed up by a GOOD tranny shop.

700R4s can be tricky to set up in swaps because the throttle valve (TV) cable adjustment is critical and the adustment is very fine. Lokar has a good TV cable kit. It is much easier to install a 4L60E or 4L80E with a stand alone computer.

However, 4L80Es are stronger yet and can be built to handle just about anything. I'm having ATS build one for a clients twin turbo ZZ572 going into a '70 Chebby dually for a tow rig (don't ask). ATS says they can handle more torque than an Allison T1000. They also sell a unit where you can manually select lock-up at any rpm you want, even with a high stall converter. Imagine a 4,500 rpm tq to launch and with a flip of a switch lock up at 1k for towing!

Kinda expensive though. :flipoff2:

I can pick up 4L80Es around here for $250 - $300 from the junk yards.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.
 
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