Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
It's obvious why it's happening from the photo. I was just wondering if anyone had ever had their leafs tempered after they had already taken a set in the gull wing position. Could that possibly allow them to live longer under these conditions?

I know ideally they shouldn't be going negative arch, but how the heck do you get compression without negative arch?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,521 Posts
Just remember that springs are consumable items on a trail rig.

You shoud really do something about that wrap though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
There actually is a bump stop. That's what I was testing on the ramp today. Just put it in. Without the bump stop the tire would be tucked up in the fender and the tire barely rubs at it's maximum radius.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
If by "tempering" you mean heating, you do not want to do that. You will turn your spring steel into non spring steel and it won't work real well for leaf springs anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The springs are tempered by the spring shop after they are arched (or so I have been told). What I'm thinking is that they should be retempered when they have taken a set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. Trouble is these are new springs, only been on the trail for one weekend and on the ramp doing some testing. They talk about retempering, but that is prior to re arching. I don't want them rearched. Just to be able to flex both ways and not break too soon :D I know I'm asking the impossible, but I thought there might be a bit of "magic" involved of getting this type of setup to work.

I do carry an extra mainleaf set (military wrapped). For when the inevitable occurs:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
My opinion is that it's not the negative arch that kills a spring, but the fact that when you articulate like that the ends of the spring are twisted one way, while the middle (perch) is twisted another.

Leaf spings are inherently inefficient for this type of use. They're really not engineered for this type of use.

Bones, "droop is more important than compression" - explain this, I don't think that's correct. It might be so for posing on ramps or rocks, but the entire purpose of articulating is to keep the tires on the ground for traction, and keep the vehicle stable. Anyone can tell you that a drooped tire does not have near the traction of a stuffed one. A drooped tire does not provide stability in most instances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Toyman, I know what you mean about the twisting of the springs. I have been expermenting a bit with the leaf clamps. I left them on on the drivers side (ahead of the perch) but removed them from the passenger side.

This idea came from the old drag racing trick which places several clamps on the drivers side spring ahead of the perch. It's supposed to help the spring act like a traction bar.

When I ramped it today you could clearly see the twist in the spring as the clamp bolt was only being contacted at one point. So I removed the bolt to relieve the bind, the bolt was BENT. Ramping it again of course provided more seperation between the leafs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Another thing to think about: I would bet that most people think of their leaf springs as holding up the vehicle, and locating the axel. (Just ask them what their leaf springs do for them.)

But they totally over look the fact that the all of the force used to move the vehicle forward is transfered through the leaf springs. (And only 1/2 of it at that) This force, along with axel wrap is very hard on leaf springs. I'm sure we have all seen someone who is getting major traction but not much movement have their axel walk forward a bit. I've seen a few leafs get permanently bent this way.

Some of these vehicles weigh 4500 lbs. When climbing something steep, a lot of force of moving that weight is on two little leaf springs.

I'm not saying leafs are crap or anything, just susceptible to wearing out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,649 Posts
Toyman said:
Bones, "droop is more important than compression" - explain this, I don't think that's correct. It might be so for posing on ramps or rocks, but the entire purpose of articulating is to keep the tires on the ground for traction, and keep the vehicle stable. Anyone can tell you that a drooped tire does not have near the traction of a stuffed one. A drooped tire does not provide stability in most instances.
:rolleyes: Maybe because a leaf spring doesn't have the ability to compress as far as droop. Therefore a flatter spring works best for articulation. And I'm not talking about posing or ramping. Take it for what it's worth, but Explorer needs some bumpstomps to prevent negativly arching the springs and causing them to fail prematurly. A leaf was not meant to do this over and over and live. Simple as that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,374 Posts
So, if I'm reading this right, a 1-2" front lift spring for a Chevy would have a very short life (even on the street), due to the fact that at static ride height, it is flat?

Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,649 Posts
Yeah we are talking street use here. :rolleyes: You think it's fine, run with it. I don't and I'm sure whoever sells aftermarket springs would agree that hammering springs that way is not good for them.

Back on track....so can springs be tempered. That's what Exlorer wants to know. I didn't mean to take the thread in a different direction. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
zags said:

Another ramp queen, yeee ha.............
Bud, I have been wheeling this thing since it was new in '93. I had a set of Nationals in there for 4 years and didn't bust one until last month. I now have National "clones" and access to a shop that can build them however I want for a hell of a lot less than National or Deaver gets for them using the exact same materials.

I am just trying to figure out if there is a way to optimize what I already have. Since the rigs travel is balanced front to rear as it is currently setup I don't see the need to rework the rear suspension.

Carrying an extra main leaf as a spare is no big deal.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top