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Then I picked up some new in the box Light racing 1.5in air bumps for a good price....My old bumps were mounted inboard off the bottom of the frame. I wanted to get them more inline with the shock this time around. Packaging has been a challenge. They wont fit well behind the shock because they will come in contact at droop. I could go inside the coil bucket but I fear that it will put too much leverage on the coil bucket. Any thoughts?



Here's another view of them sitting below the frame, I don't want them inboard. They were in the spot of my old bumps in that pic...The tube in the middle of the coil bucket and is a retainer at full droop. I could mount them in there but like I said my concern was stated above. That has been put on hold as I think of something.
Maybe it's as simple as reinforcing the coil buckets? Keep it simple?
 

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Discussion Starter #362
Maybe it's as simple as reinforcing the coil buckets? Keep it simple?
That’s what I’m thinking. I guess my question is do they even need reinforcing? Jeeps have em like this from the factory but mine are bolt on...it’s the ballistic Fab type.
 

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I'm not sure what your coil mounts look like. I'm sure I could browse and find a picture, but I haven't got time at work :flipoff2:

I think if you're properly supporting the weight of the vehicle now you're probably fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #364 (Edited)
I'm not sure what your coil mounts look like. I'm sure I could browse and find a picture, but I haven't got time at work :flipoff2:

I think if you're properly supporting the weight of the vehicle now you're probably fine.
Here is a pic of the coil bucket....





Got the rear suspension tore down to a degree. I think I found a problem!

Broken center pin



My theory is that the leaf broke first. I have 2 sets of leafs. My factory H3 leafs that came off the assembly line and these...These are H3T leafs with an add a leaf in them. The add a leaf broke! When it broke it allowed slop and snapped it.



That might be part of my complaint of why the rear end felt like it was wrapping vs putting power to the ground ASAP.

In an attempt to set up bumpstops properly I tore it down, measured the length of the leafs below it, put in a block of wood to account for it and bottomed it out. This is its current shock bottom out.









The Shackle isn't that far back at full bump...is that an issue and should I move the fixed hanger back an inch? I am curious how much of the shackle not moving is due to hammered leaf spring bushings.

Those will be replaced with the other leafs.
 

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I’ve got a couple comments for ya!

1: I think your leaf spring buckets look pretty stout. If I were going to nitpick, I’d suggest adding a sort of gusset across the top of the coil bucket. The reason being that currently the coil applies an upward force around the edges of the bucket, but if you add in the bump stop to the center, there’s not much preventing it from turning into a taco shape. A simple front-to-back rib across the top of the bucket would make this a lot stronger and you could even wrap it down the sides if you were so inclined to add even more structure to the whole bucket.

2: In an offroad application, I don’t think aftermarket add-a-leaves hold up. If you want extra lift, I’d mix and match OEM spring packs or splurge for a set of Deavers to get things where you want them. Another thing to consider: how long are your leaf spring perches on your axle and do they have rounded edges at the front and rear? Even if they’re not digging into the leaf, they could be causing a stress concentration zone if they’re too short.

3: I think your shackle angle when the spring is compressed is pretty good. Remember that the shackle will be furthest back when the spring is exactly flat, so flexing above that and inverting the spring will actually rotate the shackle forward a little bit. If you want to move the rear axle back an inch, you might end up pushing the shackle to an angle where you’re close to inverting it and I wouldn’t want to do that. Should be simple enough to check if you simply unbolt the spring from the shackle and rotate the shackle back approx 1”. Stresses and forces are a lot worse on the trail under power so I wouldn’t want an angle more acute than 30° between the shackle and spring if it were my rig. A longer shackle would help with this, but at the expense of additional ride height – approximately half an inch more for every inch longer shackle.

I don’t think worn out bushings are going to have any effect on the shackle angle – unless they’re totally loose and wobbly.
 

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Awesome story, you were pretty close to me. Aoaa is about 1/2hour from here. Millersburg ferry across the susquehanna river..? The river is pretty high the last month or so, we have had lots of rain and way more than usual. That's on hell of a trek for you, coast to coast had to be great. I didn't know there was a 2 time rule for ultimate adventure.
 

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Discussion Starter #367
Awesome story, you were pretty close to me. Aoaa is about 1/2hour from here. Millersburg ferry across the susquehanna river..? The river is pretty high the last month or so, we have had lots of rain and way more than usual. That's on hell of a trek for you, coast to coast had to be great. I didn't know there was a 2 time rule for ultimate adventure.
Thanks! Yep, that was the ferry! It was one crazy trek but a road trip I will never forget! Unfortunately I am done with UA unless I somehow get to go back as a sponsor, 4WOR employee or cronie. All readers have a 2 time policy.
 

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Discussion Starter #368
So....the never ending project continues!

I decided that the bumps were too big for the front. I moved those to the rear...



After pulling the springs and bumping it to the desired arch with only the main leaf in I grabbed my OEM leafs and swapped out the bushings...First one was a pain but it got easier with time!

Fire...ball joint press and a hammer....





I also took off the rear shackles to find the bolt holes completely oblong!





Between a few wasted bushings, oblong shackle holes and a broken add a leaf on the pass side no wonder why rear end felt a little loose....

I then went south for the off road expo in Pomona...

While down there I had to help my brother pull his supercharger on his JK to replace a torn AC Line...That was fun.



Back together...



My buddy also gave me a set of his TJ Metalcloak springs to try out.

The ones I have are from rusty's off road and unseat rather quickly.

Rusty vs Metalcloak...



Much longer free length, as you can see the rustys are much bigger coil wires but at the same time the MC ones are spread much further apart (the further apart the stiffer right?) I will try them out but my concern is being too soft.

As you can see below these barely unseat compared to my old ones...They are retained on the bottom but the tube in the middle retains the top. The rustys offroad ones unseated almost to the bottom of the tube.



I also picked up 2 trigger accessories wiring systems for a steal at the expo!

What I love about these compared to the spod and switch pro is that while those 2 systems still run one bulk wire through the firewall these run ZERO! The switches wireless talk to the little box.

 

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Discussion Starter #369
To continue on the rear end...I cut off the rear spring perch and welded on some new U bolt eliminator +2in wheelbase kit from ruffstuff. Now I have stretched the wheelbase 2in. Before this I was 1in stretched with their standard perch.



I also mocked up a 9in truss...Its before I ground everything down after I took a plasma to the old brackets.



Does it go full length? No, its not the strongest truss around but it will add rigidity to the housing to hopefully avoid causing issues with the anti wrap bar I will be putting in...



Speaking of which...Here was the first cut but I had to butcher this mount much more to get it to work with the Truss and HO72



Ignore the two bolts that aren't bolted down...Its just for mock up.



I got the rear end on its own weight. The new spring perch is 3/4in taller then the old one but the springs seem really flat! I'm curious if the +2in perch is causing it to sit at a point on the spring flattening it out more or if its strictly add a leaf related. I figure I could take my main leafs I have now and cut them down and use them as an add a leaf or just do a longer shackle since I need new ones anyways. I am not sure about spring rate or what the best option is at this point.

Once I get ride height I can finish the anti wrap bar.
 

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I have those ruffstuff perches too and I think you're onto something. They are SUPER long (8" to be exact) compared to a factory style perch so I think it does sort of clamp the springs down a little bit more than you're used to. That said, I don't think it's going to affect ride height more than 1/8-1/4" at most.

With regards to the leaves, if you do cut the main leaf down, I'd recommend cutting it a bit shorter. The longer it is, the less additional rate it adds. If it's the same length as the new main leaf, I'd guess that the spring rate it adds is only double that of the top leaf - which isn't much by itself, but maybe enough to give you what you need.

The best way would be to cut it all the way long, test it. Then shorten a bit, test, then shorten some more, test. Repeat until you get it sitting as you'd like.


Truss looks good, smart idea modifying a 9" truss. Like you said, even if it doesn't go the full width, you're strengthening the center section where the anti-wrap bar will mount. Also, the few inches on each side outwards of the leaf springs is far less likely to bend than the center section would unsupported, simply due to the length of the unsupported length. You're more likely to bend a spindle, which you can't really truss anyway. I think you'll be just fine for the life of that axle.

Since that trigger system is wireless, does it draw much current when the truck is off? Or will you wire them to ignition power?
 

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Discussion Starter #371 (Edited)
I can wire it to the ignition. I’m not sure how much power it draws but something I will look into because if I don’t have to I would rather not wire it to the ignition or another type of power on wire.

Also here a shot of negative arch. I’m not sure if I wanna go much further. I don’t think this much negative arch will hurt the spring

 

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your shackle should look like that ^ at ride height, maybe a little closer to 90*


if your shackles are at 90* ride height (straight up and down) your spring is doing all the droop and your shackle isn't doing anything for droop.
 

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if your shackles are at 90* ride height (straight up and down) your spring is doing all the droop and your shackle isn't doing anything for droop.
Wut?
 

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Discussion Starter #375 (Edited)
PHP:
Lol I agree.

On another note I’m gonna run it at about that far negative arch. I found a pic that wasn’t far off from that the first time I flexed the soa.

Which engine is in that JK, and what supercharger requires hacking the hood?
factory 3.8L, it’s the avenger supercharger. They went out of business but my brother snagged it stupid cheap from a guy doing a V8 swap. After it was installed my brother brought it to a guy who does custom tunes and he said it makes more power then any 3.8L ripped JK he’s dyno’d

We will see how long that 3.8L lasts but it only runs about 5lbs of boost I believe...doesn’t burn oil and has about 100k on the motor maybe 20k with the blower.

After following Dave in that stretched 2dr Jk on UA2018 I’m ready to see my brother do a R2.8 with the ecodiesel 8 speed but it’s costly
 

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your shackle should look like that ^ at ride height, maybe a little closer to 90*


if your shackles are at 90* ride height (straight up and down) your spring is doing all the droop and your shackle isn't doing anything for droop.
PHP:
Lol I agree.

On another note I’m gonna run it at about that far negative arch. I found a pic that wasn’t far off from that the first time I flexed the soa.

I think what he is saying that with the shackle at 90* there is very little swing left to the shackle, making the spring do more work. the same could be said for compression. In my experience a vertical shackle makes for a stiffer ride.
 

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I think what he is saying that with the shackle at 90* there is very little swing left to the shackle, making the spring do more work. the same could be said for compression. In my experience a vertical shackle makes for a stiffer ride.
exactly!

your shackle should be at the 45* degree angle in your pics at ride height, not when the spring is fully (over) compressed (depending how arched your springs are of course). if your shackle is straight up and down at ride height (90*), your spring will be doing all the work when it droops (hard on the spring).

if you want your springs to last, i'd bump stop them when they are flat and not over compress them but to each their own
 

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Discussion Starter #379
exactly!

your shackle should be at the 45* degree angle in your pics at ride height, not when the spring is fully (over) compressed (depending how arched your springs are of course). if your shackle is straight up and down at ride height (90*), your spring will be doing all the work when it droops (hard on the spring).

if you want your springs to last, i'd bump stop them when they are flat and not over compress them but to each their own
Ill have to get some pics at ride height. They look pretty equal to what the pic showed at full bump. As they go into negative arch the shackle starts to come back to less angle.
 

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I still don't understand the comment about the 'spring doing all the work' when it droops.

Are you saying that the shackle is imparting more forces on the spring? Worst, it's putting a tensile force on the top leaf which may add additional spring rate, but this only occurs in certain situations.

I agree that a vertical shackle at ride height isn't ideal. Most shoot for between 30-45° at ride height, but it really comes down to how flat your springs are at ride height, length of springs, travel of springs, and how long your shackle is.
 
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