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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was thinking about this, among many other things, when i went up to the protest today. All this money we dump into saving the trails and doing things in an effort to fight these retarded @$$holes who shut us down often seems like a waste. The money I've donated to many organizations of the past couple months adds up to right around $300. Yea it's not much, but it could be a pretty decent chunk of change times 1000 people.

Why haven't we just gone against the grain, picked a person whom everyone trusts to start an account or fund to BUY LAND. Not at the rubicon, not in the eldo forrest neccessarily... but somewhere within 150 miles of "here".

Now there are a million hurdles between this preliminary idea and the legal ownership of a 4x4 park of sorts.... but it's a damn good idea to get on the bandwagon now and set it up. Something like buying into it buys you a membership for X years depending on how much you contribute. I can name 300 people that would throw 4-500 down on a plan like this. 1-200+ acres somewhere cheap w/ rockyness and many fewer rules.

One of the huge hurdles we'd have to overcome is the same BS we deal w/ now. Lame ass f-cking extremist greenies (who are reading this idea right now and digging through their law books trying to file suit for something about thinking). Owning the land and having direct street access to said land would be key. I'm not entirely sure insurance would be a problem if everyone was an "owner". I need to ask my clamper brothers how it works. We all "own" the land that ummmmm the things ummmmm errrr happen on :D

So until all the details are worked out maybe only owners would be allowed.... Anyways it's just an idea. I've seen a lot of chunks of land for sale in foresthill that are next to one another, not near anything, and are strictly "recreational".... no services to the site, which is good. Just bring in your generator.

I wish this was something I had the funding to do on my own because there'd be a big sign at the drawbridge gate saying how things work on my piece of dirt.

If you get a chance stroll through some real estate sites and post up if you find something that fits the description. Preferably wooded, hilly, rocky... which is noise reduction/shade and potentially challenging.

I bet a million could get raised easily over a year... and with that we'll ensure that we can wheel and no whiney f-cker is going to come in there and find a spotted owl (before I find them HAHAHAHAH) :D that's 2k people w/ $500... simple! or 1000 people w/ $1000 bucks... more wheelin for us :D

Post the problems and concerns... but don't just shoot it down right off the bat please. It's just an idea.
 

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I like the idea a lot'!!! Don't know about the legality/insurance issues that will come up. Also I'm sure the greenies will find a way to sue us/use up our money defending our recreation on our land in the courts but WTF-- I'd definately be game for a private 4x4 park here in nor cal. Land is not cheap here however, and California is definately "home to the Sierra Club" and other groups who feel compelled to instill their beliefs upon the public, so maybe looking at northern nevada is another option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
hell yea.... oh at this point f-ck the greenies. I'm painfully sick of their sh!t and if I knew who was behind all this crap, every dime I had would go to an organization that cleanly steals their oil filters out of their cars then takes pics of them making a mess.. They can say/try to do whatever they want off the land... but the second they go trying to pull some sh!t w/ in the perimeter... how's that donkey kong saying go? :D
 

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I think its agreat idea and would take some serious research and effort to put together, but it is possible. I know of another 10 people who would be in for $500-600 to fund a private 4x4 park. Any lawyers on the board wanna chime in on what this would entail legally?
 

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there are privet OHV parks in the mid west.. and you could have 4 wheel shop, and cafe.. could make some money off it.. but you can run them all as a none profit the money from the shop and Cafe could go to buy more land... and as none profit.. tax free.
 

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Check into the timber companies land auctions.. cheap land for "timber companies" to buy in Eldorado NF.. wish I could tell you more but over heard property owners disscussing their purchases.. dunno if it can be done by us, but worth a look..
 

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Thats a good idea. I could come up with some $$ to throw in also. I read about a place in Florida that was basically the same idea, if you were a member you get a key and have 24 hour access.

Kevin
 

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What it entails depends on how you want to set it up. Regardless, you want insurance on it. No matter of waivers or disclaimers will keep that one asshole from sueing. So, a $400 initial investment now incurs monthly dues to cover insurance. It might be a good idea to setup a LLC shelter, or some sort of corporation that you can distribute stock of the land / company - so that if one wishes to opt out of the organization they haven't necessarily lost anything but monthly dues. This also keeps one person from maintaining 100% legal control of the land. But, as we all know if we've dealt with offroading / enthusiast clubs, be prepared to do a shit-ton of maintenance while most of the group gives excuses instead of time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What it entails depends on how you want to set it up. Regardless, you want insurance on it. No matter of waivers or disclaimers will keep that one asshole from sueing. So, a $400 initial investment now incurs monthly dues to cover insurance. It might be a good idea to setup a LLC shelter, or some sort of corporation that you can distribute stock of the land / company - so that if one wishes to opt out of the organization they haven't necessarily lost anything but monthly dues. This also keeps one person from maintaining 100% legal control of the land. But, as we all know if we've dealt with offroading / enthusiast clubs, be prepared to do a shit-ton of maintenance while most of the group gives excuses instead of time.
Right on... I'd like to stay away from an LLC w/ lots of people on it. Last one I was on was really spendy every year.

It might have to be something sketchy like a pres, vice pres, and treas or something of that nature. They're the 3 on the LLC and everyone that "buys" into it is a memeber for X years. Then the land could be purchased for less than the total in the bank, leaving money for insurance, equipment, some tweaker to sit out there w/ a gun and stop illegal entry :D It could be like a yacht club hahahah v-neck sweaters, status and ranking lol.... sorry I've been working for 20hrs straight. I'm losing it
 

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Funny you bring this up, because i was out at Cache Canyon on the 25th rafting with my girl and saw all the property out there that's for sale. I started wondering how i could buy some and turn it into a 4x4 park. It's not very rocky or wooded there, but the idea was definitely floating around my head.

Myself and few buddies would definitely be in...
 

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Thats a good idea. I could come up with some $$ to throw in also. I read about a place in Florida that was basically the same idea, if you were a member you get a key and have 24 hour access.

Kevin
they can't take your property when you get sued in florida.

I like the idea and would definitely put in $500. but I think it would be better as an out of state corporation that owned it, and had anonymous shareholders so there would be a lesser risk of getting sued. a donation system for buying more land or up keep the land and paying for the insurance to have activities go on it would be a great idea too. when the corp gets sued, you drop the business license and start a new one
 

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they can't take your property when you get sued in florida.

I like the idea and would definitely put in $500. but I think it would be better as an out of state corporation that owned it, and had anonymous shareholders so there would be a lesser risk of getting sued. a donation system for buying more land or up keep the land and paying for the insurance to have activities go on it would be a great idea too. when the corp gets sued, you drop the business license and start a new one
Anonymous shareholders or not, there remains one fundemental problem: someone has to be responsible for collecting money, therefor, someone is responsible for the scheme. All anonymous shareholders does is make it more likely that one poor soul gets fawked over if shit goes South.

And the tweaker w/ a gun idea ain't bad, cus it's the bastards who come into your land illegally that are probably more likely to sue when they hurt themselves. So, just have the tweaker shoot them before they get onto your land.
 

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Anonymous shareholders or not, there remains one fundemental problem: someone has to be responsible for collecting money, therefor, someone is responsible for the scheme. All anonymous shareholders does is make it more likely that one poor soul gets fawked over if shit goes South.

And the tweaker w/ a gun idea ain't bad, cus it's the bastards who come into your land illegally that are probably more likely to sue when they hurt themselves. So, just have the tweaker shoot them before they get onto your land.
the business collects the money and the shareholders can be employees of the business. employees aren't liable. the company is. I know this works.
the poor soul could have been on the rubicon when shit goes south, and he would still get fawked. only there would be no cops with ticket books.
 

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Phil, I have tried this both to purchase land on the rubicon and elsewhere. There are some prime pieces up in Shasta by Trinity and also by Burney. Alot of research has been done behind the scene to figure out how it all works. I have the plan to implement a group purchase if you wanna hear more PM me.
It does work. All the steps have been reviewd by lawyers and business people to try and solve the liability issues and ownership issues that may arise. Basically , if a property is identified we had/have a real estate agent ready and are ready to start collecting money. If purchase goal is not met money is refunded. It is a legal nightmare to collect money first and hold it until property is found. Trust accounting and % accounting alone kills the idea of collect and hold. Ideally a property purchase contract with like 90 days to collect is what is needed. That allows 60 days to get funds and another 30 to do the due diligence and close the deal.
FWIW on the Rubicon adjacent property we looked at ( turned out to suck) we had $75,000.00 raised in 3 days.
 

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Problem with Cache Creek/ backside of pilsbury dam is that our wonderful president had it designated a wild and senic river late last year or early this one which means there are virtually 0 uses that " will be allowed".
Just for kicks take pics, get #'s , and post up, thats how it is gonna start.
In these times is when a deal will be found so look hard. Up by Oroville is gotta have potential.
 

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It's a pretty good idea overall, and I have a good friend that owns a real estate company so if this gets further off the ground we could go to him. Also, I'd put in some cash but I'd also donate time for both getting the park ready and patrol/maintenance. For operational ideas what about asking that guy who owns land in Vallejo and has trail runs all the time?
 

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Up by Oroville is gotta have potential.
I like that idea...that's right by me:smokin:

That's amazing that you got $75k in 3 days.

The guy is not in vallejo, he's in Vacaville. That's Bob. He has owned the property for a while, his house is on the property. All he has is a waiver that everybody signs. He only allows people to come up on sundays when he is always there.
 

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:DRed Neck Yacht Club!! i'm likin your ideas phil... I've got $1k when sh!t hits the fan. I'll bet this can be done. Maybe it is similar to a hunting club, you figure shootin guns on private property would be kinda like wheelin... waivers and all, sign your life away on the dotted line, and don't bug me when your arm gets shot off!

I like the El Dorado hills area, or up in that direction, Granite Rocks everywhere, trees, hills... maybe we should go scope some stuff out... and maybe visit poor reds while we're at it.. :D
 
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