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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I heard about this at the Rally, but I could not really offer any help.

A certain individual (names with-held to protect the innocent, and NO, it was not me.) got a ticket for being on a "closed" route behind Union Valley Res.

There was a gate to the road, but the gate was opened. Several other people were camped off the same route, all recieved tickets for being on a closed route.

Here's the kicker, The officer issuing the ticket was MALE, but the name on the ticket was FEMALE!

The poor kid that got the ticket pleaded "not guilty", and has to go to court. Meanwhile, the FS has hired a lawyer.

From his mother I was told that he is a very good, church-going type of kid, definatley not a Clamper like myself, and he is very upset that he is getting hit with a $750 dollar fine.

Anything the poor guy can do? He nneds some help in court.

Please help....
 

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Ooooooh this just TICKS me off.. if it's CLOSED then they should CLOSE the stinkin GATE.


Okay [/on rant]

Umm... I'd fight it.

I think this is an opportunity to make a stand and let the FS know we're not going to back down, and that they need to 'be specific' (their favorite words).
 

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The FS is sooo busy closing trails do you actually think they have time to close gates :shaking: :tonguefirmlyplantedincheek:

This really sucks and I'm sorry this young man got nailed. It's BS & I'm trying to stay calm, act reasonable and not blame or direct my anger at the FS Rangers in the field but sh*t like this is making it tough to do so :mad3:
 

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He should do some research reguarding the discrepancy with the names. If the "officer" who signed the ticket wasn't there to witness the supposed violation, I would think that the ticket would be invalid. He should also get back up there and take some pictures of the road, the gate and any signs. Give the judge the same view he had from the driver's seat. Try to get in contact with the others who were issued tickets as well, and find out their story, even use them as witnesses. I think the FS does some of this crap fully counting on people to not challenge it. Otherwise, why hire a lawyer???? When has CHP ever brought a lawyer with them to court over speeding tickets and such????
We need to find out under what law, act, or authority this falls. For instance, does the Forest Supervisor have the power to make laws? I don't think so, unless congress gives him/her that power. I thought only the legislative branch of the state or federal government could create laws. So if this guy violated a law by driving through an open gate, what specific law was violated?
 

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got a ticket for being on a "closed" route behind Union Valley Res.

There was a gate to the road, but the gate was opened. Several other people were camped off the same route, all recieved tickets for being on a closed route.

Here's the kicker, The officer issuing the ticket was MALE, but the name on the ticket was FEMALE!


Please help....
Do you know or can you give the route he was on or near?

Some people have some strange names........or maybe the FS used our route maintenance money for the sex change:flipoff2:
 

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. . . We need to find out under what law, act, or authority this falls. For instance, does the Forest Supervisor have the power to make laws? I don't think so, unless congress gives him/her that power. I thought only the legislative branch of the state or federal government could create laws. So if this guy violated a law by driving through an open gate, what specific law was violated?
CFR 36, Part 261 gives the Forest the authority to close a road or trail. I don't know what road the kid was on so I can't research that particular closure or restriction but there is probably a signed order floating around somewhere in the system.

The ticketee may have some legal basis to challenge based on the discrepancy between the name and gender of the ticketer, but then again, the ticketer might have been a boy named Sue.

Ignorance of the law and all that gobbeldey-**** . . .
 

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He should do some research reguarding the discrepancy with the names. If the "officer" who signed the ticket wasn't there to witness the supposed violation, I would think that the ticket would be invalid.
This isn't actually true... while local and state LEO must witness the "violation", the Federal LEO do not. They are authorized to ticket based on a witness report, and the witness willing to stand up to having been a witness.

That is why, for example, in The High Lakes area the District Ranger CAN and WILL issue a ticket, even by mail, if WE report a violation, take pictures as proof and write a statement as to the violation. This is in 36CFR212 (but I don't have time ATM to find the sub paragraph, but can if needed)

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ken.....

On a side note,

I have been swamped lately, that's why i have not e-mailed you back yet about FOE. I will try to get something out to you tonight.
 

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This sounds like a bummer... technically, "not knowing" is not an excuse.

USFS has been slapped before against using closed-unless-posted-open policies, and reminded that the intent is open-unless-posted-closed, but the Motorized Vehicle Restriction map is a cute dodge around that -- now they don't have to POST a route closed, if they MAP it closed. :(

Feel free to PM route specifics -- I'll help if I can, but the Forest Service has the upper hand on this, regardless of the gender/name on the paperwork. I'd recommend that you schedule a court appearance and attend to *respectfully* argue that insufficient signage exists, the maps are not well-distributed (and are often in error), and that the gate was locked open. I suspect that if you can keep your cool through this process, and ask for a reduced fine, that they may oblige.

Randii
 

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Do you know or can you give the route he was on or near?
last night we got the route he was on and it appears the route is a legally open road and is on the Motor Vehicle Restictions map.
if this is the case I think he may be home free
 

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fed court no place to play

If you want to contact me direct about the federal court and tickets, please do so. This is no minor game to play. i'm working on another one right now.

First trip to court: plead G or Not G.
Second trip: court/trial.
Couple days work at least. That is if the DA doesn't post pone court date on you at the last minute, blah blah.

Fines range from around $500 and 6 months in jail;to more in dollars. But it's unusual to get a higher fine.

Tickets are usually for a couple hundred or less on scene. Was this one more?

Anyway, I offer my help but I'll have to do it off line on the side.
Del
[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Del....

I "think" the kid was charged $170.00

I will forward you the e-mail.

KURT
 

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Kurt we need to know the outcome of this from him.
if he was in fact on the road he said, which is on the approved map, it sets an issue with them not know what is open or closed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just e-mailed him giving him Del's e-mail and asking him to let us know the outcome.
 

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Kurt, Rick, and I studied the map, and provided our comments as private individuals... if he's on the stub we discussed and looked at, it can probably be dismissed with simple communications to the Patrol Captain.

I'm all for nailing resource destroyers, but a kid camping off a poorly marked road behind an open gate, when it is shown as legal on the map... I hope he gets it corrected without a trip to court.

Randii
 
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