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I'm getting a rogue fab bender for Christmas and collecting the parts for electric hydraulic instead of using the harbor freight air Cylinder. At work we have a few pumps that I think might work but I know very little about hydraulics.

I need help deciding if this pump will work, what diameter and stroke cylinder would work best for the pump set up. Seems most go with a 2.5-3" bore 24" cylinder but they are using different pumps from log splitters.

The pump is a greenlee 960. It's a power supply unit with 1.5 hp motor that puts out 1.32 gpm at 100 psi and .132 gpm at 10,000 psi. Obviously this pump puts out too much psi and seems a little low on the gpm. I was thinking I could run a regulator to keep pressure around 2500 psi. Second problem is it's a 1 way valve setup for power out and spring return cylinder. I think I can get around this by running the valve in the extend position to a 3 way valve that in neutral position recirculates the oil to tank not building pressure and 1 way extends, other retracts. I would install the pressure regulator before the valve. Does this sound like it would work? What size cylinder should I use?
 

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Call rogue fab they now have a hydraulic setup and tell them you just want the ram and limit switches (for the automatic stops) if I wasn't a poor bastard I would already own the rogue fab electric setup as its way quicker and less noisy than the harbor freight ram. Joe seams like a reasonable guy who would work with anyone
 

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........ Joe seams like a reasonable guy who would work with anyone
Joe is a great guy and I am sure he would send you down a good path.

.
 

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The pump that you have will work just fine. What you need to know is how much fluid you have in the reservoir and is it enough to fill the cylinder that you are looking to run. Second the valve that you chose will control the speed of the ram and PSI. Most rams that you will find can only handle 2500-3000 PSI and the bore plus PSI will equal the Tonnage that you are going to get. The harbor freight ram has a small bore so it needs a hi PIS to get the 10 ton. Just as a reference the Harbor Freight #94562 has a 17.37" stroke with a 1.5" bore. So you might only need a 18"-20" stroke ram with a 2"-3" bore. Hope this help.
 

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I just picked up the same pump. I would like to make it a all round shop hydraulic pump for my press, Dimple dies,and hydraulic tube bender. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That is my plan as well, multi purpose hydraulic power supply. Use quick connect fittings on everything for its easy to switch to different machines.

I received a response from rogue fab about their hydraulic cylinder. They said they would sell it seperate but the cost was $449. I am going to wait and get the bender assembled so I can measure best length for the cylinder and hope to have it put together in the next couple weeks.
 

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You have a low volume, high pressure pump with a small reservoir.
10,000 psi is a lot of pressure, you should match your other components to that pressure, which means expensive small bore, expensive pressure cylinder, flow valve, pressure relief valve, etc.

Trying to drop that pressure down to 2000-2500 psi typical for a bender and much more common and cheaper hydraulic components may prove difficult.
Plus no power return or having the flow handle up where you want it.

I would look for a 1-2hp, either 1725 or 3400 rpm motor running a separate gear pump connected with a Lovejoy type connector putting out 2000-2500 psi attached to a 3-5 gallon reservoir.
This is a bit jumbo, but here is the idea.

^These kinds of used industrial grade hydraulic power units can be found at scrapyards and on CL. They sell for little because most people have no idea what they are, what they would use them for and big industrial outfits aren't buying used stuff off CL.
3 phase versions can't hardly be given away.
An industrial area like Houston, they should be easy to find.
A smaller version will fit under you bender cart, or you can have a roll around unit to power other equipment with quick connects

A gear type hydraulic pump itself isn't very expensive ($80 for new) should you find one that isn't exactly right volume and pressure.
If you have the tank or can fab one the rest is off the shelf, low cost and replaceable/repairable components.

I dislike all in one hydraulic power units, they use odd ball motors or shafts, have crappy filtration, non adjustable PR valves and are basically unrepairable.
Like this.

They are OK for 12v limited use on a tommy or wheel chair lift, but not up to hard use on a press or bender.

I have built lots of hydraulic equipment, log splitters, benders, presses etc and have learned to stay with mainstream, easy to find and relatively cheap components.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the replies so far. And joannie, thanks for taking the time to write all that up. The company I work for is a salvage yard for the chemical refineries so we get plenty of good stuff. I have gone over all the pumps we have and that is the only one that I think I can make work. There are a bunch of 300 psi gear pumps, and a couple rotary vane pumps that put out max psi 3000 but 11 gpm and require 7 hp motor from my understanding of the specs.

As far as the green lee. I understand it is lower output than what most use and higher PSI, but it will only build as much psi as it needs to complete the task if I understand hydraulics enough. Example, it won't build 10,000 psi just cycling
An unloaded cylinder in and out, correct? On to the valve issue, I was planning on running this valve 1 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB11B5C1 DA VALVE looks like it's internally regulated adjustable from 2000-3000 psi. And would allow me to set the greenlee valve on extend with pump on then run from the greenlee valve to the above listed valve which would act as the control valve. I would need to tap a return port from second valve into the tank to allow the open center to bleed off. Does that all sound like it would work?

I figure I would try this first since it's free and if it doesn't work I needed the valve anyways and will either continue looking for pumps coming off jobs or I will pony up and buy one.
 

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Thanks for the replies so far. And joannie, thanks for taking the time to write all that up. The company I work for is a salvage yard for the chemical refineries so we get plenty of good stuff. I have gone over all the pumps we have and that is the only one that I think I can make work. There are a bunch of 300 psi gear pumps, and a couple rotary vane pumps that put out max psi 3000 but 11 gpm and require 7 hp motor from my understanding of the specs.

As far as the green lee. I understand it is lower output than what most use and higher PSI, but it will only build as much psi as it needs to complete the task if I understand hydraulics enough. Example, it won't build 10,000 psi just cycling
An unloaded cylinder in and out, correct? On to the valve issue, I was planning on running this valve 1 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB11B5C1 DA VALVE looks like it's internally regulated adjustable from 2000-3000 psi. And would allow me to set the greenlee valve on extend with pump on then run from the greenlee valve to the above listed valve which would act as the control valve. I would need to tap a return port from second valve into the tank to allow the open center to bleed off. Does that all sound like it would work?

I figure I would try this first since it's free and if it doesn't work I needed the valve anyways and will either continue looking for pumps coming off jobs or I will pony up and buy one.
Yes that is how hydraulics work, no load = no pressure, just dumps back into the tank, all while warming up the fluid from friction.

That valve will work and I think you have the system figured out. I would try and just remove the GL valve if possible.
You can find suitable valves on Ebay for less though.

I am confused, are you going to use a 10,000psi cylinder and a 3000-3500psi rated valve?


Back to your pile of pumps at work.

Are there any 1-3 hp, 1725 or 3450 rpm mtrs (I assume you only have single phase and not 3 phase at your home shop?), adapters, pumps, with reservoirs?
Because if so, all you have to do is change the pump out to what ever volume/psi you want with a inexpensive fixed displacement gear pump.

Or are there any reservoirs in the 3-10 gallon size?

If you plan on using the hydraulic unit for other things you want a larger reservoir because of the cycling, heat buildup of the fluid and air bubbles that get created.

For a simple system, all you need is
1) an electric mtr of the size mentioned
2) Lovejoy spider connection
3) gear pump
4) reservoir, I have fabbed several out of large structural square tubing with 3/16 or 1/4 wall. Just cap the ends. Cost next to nothing.
5) inlet strainer
6) return line filter
7) flow valve with internal pr valve
8) fittings, hoses and vented tank cap
9) optional quick disconnect fittings are costly

The money is in the electric mtr ($200-300), the reservoir ($100 up), the pump ($80), the valve $80, and the new hoses, filters and fittings ($200 or so).

Plus whatever 2500-3000psi double acting cylinder you need.

I think with any pump, you will have to buy a valve and all those fittings and hoses.

So don't let a suitable hydraulic unit with the wrong pump scare you off, that isn't where the cost is.

A word about hoses, they really aren't that flexible so if you want a neat install they have to be made to length.
So if you then later move stuff around like change the pump, you will find the hoses are no longer the right length. And it is back to the hose shop.:)
 

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Would something like a hyvair vt3-2hp1-g3.0 be worthwhile for a bender/H press power unit? Worth in the $500 range used? Might have an option on one for the bender and press I don't yet have but I don't know squat about hydro.

http://www.hyvair.com/pdf/smpowerac.pdf

The info plate shows it as a 3 gal reservoir, 3gpm pump, 1200 psi continuous with 2500 psi max intermittent. 2hp motor on 120v at the moment anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Juanni, thanks for all the help and spelling it out simple for me. I put together my bender but ran out of wire to finish welding it. I think I'm going to pick up the harbor freight ram so that I can try out the bender and figure out how fast I want the hydraulics as well as what size cylinder I want. I will update this thread when I do figure out and build the hydraulic setup. Probably be a few months. Anyways, here is the pic of the new bender!
image.jpg
 

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Would something like a hyvair vt3-2hp1-g3.0 be worthwhile for a bender/H press power unit? Worth in the $500 range used? Might have an option on one for the bender and press I don't yet have but I don't know squat about hydro.

http://www.hyvair.com/pdf/smpowerac.pdf

The info plate shows it as a 3 gal reservoir, 3gpm pump, 1200 psi continuous with 2500 psi max intermittent. 2hp motor on 120v at the moment anyway.
The trouble with compact systems like that is they use odd ball, propriety components.
1200 psi is awful low, too.

For example the motor might have multiple splines, or an internal spline, or a non standard mounting pattern. Ditto the pump.

So what happens when the motor goes tits up?
Do you buy a $500 replacement mtr from the manufacturer, or you get your dead one rebuilt/rewound $$$, or you throw it all away??
Will you even be able to get parts?

That is why most people at the home shop level would be better off using standardized off the shelf components that can be swapped and replaced as needed, cheaply!

Use a very common mtr with a 56 mounting base or 56 base and C face with a 1/2" or 5/8" shaft size.

Lovejoy type spider coupler.

Fixed displacement gear pump with standardized mounting pattern and standardized shaft.

Standardized 4 way control valve with built in pressure relief valve.

Then, should anything wear out, break, need redesign or re purposing desired it can be done easily and cheaply.

For a typical bender or press you should be looking for a 1 to 1-1/2 hp capacitor start motor.
Any more hp and you aren't going to run it off a typical 110 outlet.
I prefer 1725 rpm because it makes the system far less noisy.
I would take a used US made Baldor or Reliance mtr over a new chinese mtr.

Bigger mtrs are great if you have the outlet.

One you have the mtr, hp and rpm you then can determine what pump displacement you need.

For the stuff we are talking about, designing the operating pressure in the 1500-2000 psi range, with all of the components designed for 3000-3500 psi max pressure is reasonable.
Running cylinder designed for 2500 psi max at near max pressure, it won't last long and will be soon leaking.

For a future hydro project, start looking for suitable mtrs now. :D
 

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Juanni, thanks for all the help and spelling it out simple for me. I put together my bender but ran out of wire to finish welding it. I think I'm going to pick up the harbor freight ram so that I can try out the bender and figure out how fast I want the hydraulics as well as what size cylinder I want. I will update this thread when I do figure out and build the hydraulic setup. Probably be a few months. Anyways, here is the pic of the new bender!
You are welcome and great start.

Who designed that bender? Haven't seen one like that.
What dies does it use?
 

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Ram only. Said that they are custom made to their specs, 100% made in the usa
Dalton and Bailey Hydraulics both in Tennessee make them custom for us and they are only $120-$150. That is why I asked.
 

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first sentence of the thread :flipoff2:
Sometimes I find the obvious to be very elusive. :p




Here is a pic of a low budget hydro system I put together recently for a 16ton, 16" stroke keyway broaching press.



Used Baldor 2hp, 1725rpm, 56 mount Industrial Series mtr,,, scrapyard $30.
^surprised that hp doesn't trip the 20amp breaker, but it doesn't.

Lovejoy coupler used, put a new rubber spider in it. $5?

Fixed displacement gear pump, $50 new Ebay.
Strategically hidden behind the hoses and pump bracket in the pic. :shaking:

Inlet strainer, cap, return line filter and housing, $50 Surplus Center

Fabbed the tank 10"x10"x 3/16 wall square tube, bungs, mtr mount and pump bracket. We are fabricators aren't we? :flipoff2:
30 cents a lb.

4 way valve $70 new Ebay.

Hoses and fittings $150. Discount Hydraulic Hose.
Discount Hydraulic Hose
Same chinese fittings as the local hose shop at 25% the cost (on the more odd ones). 1/2 or less on the mainstream ones.

3.5x18 stroke 3500psi welded cylinder, Surplus Center, kind of an odd one so it was cheap.
Bought it a few years ago, $60?? and chopped and modified it.
 
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