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I was searching the threads on articulation and was wondering how many inches of articulation you guys are getting with your rigs and wondering how mine compares. I didn't seem to find what I was looking for so I thought I would post.

88 toy xtracab dana 44 up front 114" wheelbase 63" chevies in the rear and rears up front 35" MTR on 2.5" backspaced wheels.

I get 28" articulation up front and 33" in the rear while keeping three wheels on the ground. I could get more up front with some weight in the rear.

How about your rigs?
 

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No idea, I never measured but IMO Flex is WAY over rated!!!

I have more than I need so I have been sacrificing flex for a low ride hight and stability (they are usually mutually exclusive)
 

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Agreed. You can build a "ramp champ" that has tons of articulation, but that doesn't mean it wheels well. That's why you don't find much around here when you search for articulation or "RTI" numbers. The numbers are meaningless when it comes to the trail.

The other thing is that it changes when you change backspacing and/or wheel/tire/axle width, or like you say, with how much weight happens to be in your rig at the time too.
 

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Rears up front can max out a 12" shock, that's how I'm setup right now. Probably a 14" one would max out too. I'm open up front, so articuation matters more.
 

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run a buggy leaf and a dual shackle setup front and rear, cut off all your leaf spring clamps, wallow out the holes for your leaf eye bolts and last but not least, get a 4seater and load it up with fatties!

i watched some of the biggest hackjob boobytrap machines, drop the crowds jaws on the RTI ramp at hollisters MUDINYEREYE a few weekends ago...funny, i never saw any of those incredibly flexy POS's on the real trails...
 

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If you actually look at the rigs that are set up to wheel (i.e. comp buggies/moon buggies) they are set up with 12-14" shocks and in many situations (at least the ones I worked with) there was a tire in the air but it was stable, about 4" up travel the rest droop....what good it that tire that is 3ft. below your rig bearly touching the ground with no load on it...not much, especially if you are trying to carry it onto the undercut obsticle your front tire is moving forward on.

The days of massive flex, "give me the longest coilover you make" are over......ok maybe not all the way but they should be :flipoff2:

I agree with 4rnr, with what I have seen from competition setup I have also have chosen to set up my rig low with the norm flex, just set up 82 rears in front 3" up and the 9" down on the front (12" shock) and stock the 85 4runner rears in the back. Each set up (and rig) has it's own driving style that you need to learn.

Nick
 

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If you actually look at the rigs that are set up to wheel (i.e. comp buggies/moon buggies) they are set up with 12-14" shocks and in many situations (at least the ones I worked with) there was a tire in the air but it was stable, about 4" up travel the rest droop....what good it that tire that is 3ft. below your rig bearly touching the ground with no load on it...not much, especially if you are trying to carry it onto the undercut obsticle your front tire is moving forward on.

The days of massive flex, "give me the longest coilover you make" are over......ok maybe not all the way but they should be :flipoff2:

I agree with 4rnr, with what I have seen from competition setup I have also have chosen to set up my rig low with the norm flex, just set up 82 rears in front 3" up and the 9" down on the front (12" shock) and stock the 85 4runner rears in the back.

Nick
oh what the hell would you know about building trucks?? or welding? or building stuff outta tube??? why dont you just shut up!!!:flipoff2: nobody wants to hear your opinion on coilovers, especially those of us who bought the stupid long ones:laughing:
 

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If you actually look at the rigs that are set up to wheel (i.e. comp buggies/moon buggies) they are set up with 12-14" shocks and in many situations (at least the ones I worked with) there was a tire in the air but it was stable, about 4" up travel the rest droop....what good it that tire that is 3ft. below your rig bearly touching the ground with no load on it...not much, especially if you are trying to carry it onto the undercut obsticle your front tire is moving forward on. Nick
If this is thread smashing let me know, but how does this work? I get that having a tire dangling with no weight on it is great for flex, but not great when it comes to usable traction. But where does that line sit? Doesn't a leaf spring keep arching past the point where it's putting down pressure? Am I thinking about this all wrong or something? I'd think a lower center of gravity, and a well balanced rig would be more important, but what about the flex? Where does it need to stop?
 

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If this is thread smashing let me know, but how does this work? I get that having a tire dangling with no weight on it is great for flex, but not great when it comes to usable traction. But where does that line sit? Doesn't a leaf spring keep arching past the point where it's putting down pressure? Am I thinking about this all wrong or something? I'd think a lower center of gravity, and a well balanced rig would be more important, but what about the flex? Where does it need to stop?

somewhere near the point where the spring no longer exerts any down force on the axle...and thus not helping in giving traction? long before any double shackle or buggy leaf goes into affect. especially fawking you like nick described when its dangling and then gets rolled into an undercut the front already cleared, becoming a worthless anchor thats stuck because its dangling without traction

im just talking out my ass, but this is what i feel and see on trucks ive built or watched on a trail, even on 1/4 eliptical springs that were allowed to dangle because they werent 'hard mounted'
 

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somewhere near the point where the spring no longer exerts any down force on the axle...and thus not helping in giving traction? long before any double shackle or buggy leaf goes into affect. especially fawking you like nick described when its dangling and then gets rolled into an undercut the front already cleared, becoming a worthless anchor thats stuck because its dangling without traction

im just talking out my ass, but this is what i feel and see on trucks ive built or watched on a trail, even on 1/4 eliptical springs that were allowed to dangle because they werent 'hard mounted'
roger that, you're talking "uncontrolled articulation". thats what the rti ramp champs of yesterday were all about. if theres negative weight on the wheel, it doesn't need to droop any further. uncontrolled articulation lets it keep going right up til you flop. i'm much more comfortable with my mild predictable flex than i am in a over-sprung noodle.
 

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So where does a marlin spring work better than a rears up front set-up? The rears up front alow for a heluva lot of droop over the marlins. But you're saying that the Marlins are better because they stop the droop of the axle further up in the travel? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm honestly trying to get a grip on the concept.
 

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i don't think a marlin is better than a r.u.f., if put together right with proper clamps, the spring continues to push the axle down, without letting the axle pull the spring down. (well, except for maybe the last inch of droop before the tire comes off the ground).
 

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My front don't articulate....it's still IFS, but it does droop and compress well enough. As for my rear..... articulate travel of the suspension alone is 26 1/2" with 15 1/2" of vertical travel.
Hey Bruce.......I wheeled with you in Big Bear at least 5yrs ago and you were in that rig. I think I was still in my Bronco or Jeep at the time.

FWIW, this is the best IFS rig I have ever seen wheel in person. IIRC, its been up a few Hammers trails as well. The guy can drive.

Anyway, I agree that a lot of flex is way overrated. I love the guys that swear by stupid crap like Revolver shackles, and Chevy 63's with a double shackle. They're nothing but ramp gimmicks IMO.
 

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heck yes flex is over-rated...


but im sooo guilty of trying to make my rig flex the most in my group....

but hey who isn't :grinpimp:



my setup:



front : 3" all-pro (buggy springs :shaking: ) and sky high-steer = 28"


rear: 2 &1/2" lift blocks , stock springs ( have not measured flex from rear:( )
 

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No idea, I never measured but IMO Flex is WAY over rated!!!

I have more than I need so I have been sacrificing flex for a low ride hight and stability (they are usually mutually exclusive)
Right on. I tried to build mine as low as I could. Trail Gear 3" front springs, and (because I'm a cheap bastard) stock rear springs with 2" blocks and a lift shackle. I get full travel of my 14" shocks up front, but the rear doesn't flex that great. I hang a tire in the air from time to time, but it's no big deal:



 

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those stock rears will flex a little better if you pull a couple leafs. you dont have much weight back there, so you're spring rate is too high. you'll get a little more axle wrap, but that never bothered me.
 

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those stock rears will flex a little better if you pull a couple leafs. you dont have much weight back there, so you're spring rate is too high. you'll get a little more axle wrap, but that never bothered me.

where the hell do you wheel? axle wrap is the devil!:evil:
 
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