[tys]

Anyone know? I searched and came up empty handed with respect to Girling setups.

First thing I'm told is to use a Girling approved fluid, like Castrol GT LMA Brake Fluid.

As far as bleeding, I've heard of letting gravity do the work of pushing the air out by allowing upto 1/2 a bottle of fluid pass through the system. I've also heard of using the pumping technique, which is commonly used to bleed brakes.

Looking for the "proper" technique.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[blacklabjeep]

Thats a roger on using castrol, american brand fluids destroy the seals inside. I don't know what kind of girling set up you have on a Jeep, I've only delt w/ them when I worked for a shop specialzing in old british cars. The bleeding procedure is the same as the brakes, just open the bleed nipple and pump. I aslo had a lot of good luck in using pressure bleeders that just ran off of air from the tire. Maybe someone else on here can give you more advice.

 

[slopoke]

i recently worked on a 73 maserati bora that had a girling system. the owner had put in a DOT fluid and it ate up all the rubber seals. so make sure to use the right stuff. as for bleeding, do it the same as normal. thats what we did and they work great. good luck

 

[Boggerdust]

No kidding? I have that Girling and put regular brake fluid in it. How long does it take to destroy the seals? I guess, I'll buy some of that import fluid and flush it out.

 

[Boggerdust]

I checked the factory manual and it said DOT brake fluid. Is this question involving a Jeep

 

[blacklabjeep]

I don't know how it is on the newer Girling syatems, but the older systems (non-Jeep) the american brake fluids will destroy the seals. Apperently, the brits use rubbers that will corode w/ american fluid. I saw it happen on cars that set up over just a few months. This was the main reason for brake and clutch rebuilds on the cars I saw. The Castrol stuff isn't that much more expensive, besides thats pretty much the only stuff I run in my jeep. Haven't had any problems for the past 4+ years.

 

[Boggerdust]

Yeah, I'm just figuring these previous posts must have been directed at the older brit stuff. In answer to the original question, just fill the master and bleed thru the slave.

 

[tys]

Is this question involving a Jeep

Yes, it is. Factory CJ Girling system from an 81 CJ7 w/ 4cyl Iron Duke Engine.

 

[tys]

Yeah, I'm just figuring these previous posts must have been directed at the older brit stuff.

Nope, OEM Jeep stuff. I'll run Castrol just to be safe...but thanks for the comments on the the bleeding approach.

Chris

 

[Jaffer]

You all are feeding yourselves so much $hit and misinformation back and forth to each other here on this thread that I have to try and put a stop to this! ...

I'm certainly no expert but at least I researched these fluid types enough to try and stop the oozing of this this type of "gee, I guess" misinformation. Especially on this board.

Why didn't any of you just read the instructions that come with those Girling or Lucas cylinders?... or a manual?, ... or even the back of the can !!!

Those cylinder manufacturers or the vehicle makers who install them usually recommend DOT4 or DOT5 fluids, especially in the clutch systems
DOT4 is Semi-Synthetic and DOT5 is full Synthetic.

Most American manufactured automobiles use DOT3 fluids which actually have the best over-all characteristics for brake systems.
It is easier on the system's rubber and holds petal pressure better according to one long time professional power brake service operator I queried on this subject.

And NEVER add brake or clutch cylinder fluid unless you are positive you know what's in there to begin with.
Make a mistake and you may just find yourselves having to replace every rubber seal in your entire hydraulic system ... including proportioning valve.

Many of those old Jeeps were US Postal vehicles and the goverment specified DOT5 due to that synthetic's superior functionality under a lot of heat from the mail carrier's constant stop and go driving. DOT5 is popular with motorcyclists for this same reason. I have been told DOT4 was designed to provide some of the brakeline conditioning petal firmness of DOT3 with the superior heat resistant qualites of DOT5.

I did read somewhere there is a simple test to determine the unknown brake fluid type in a vehicle ... something about one floating and the other sinking in water.
Try searching for that ... instead of more guessing out loud ... :flipoff2:

Damn, surgery makes me really grouchy ...

 

[slopoke]

well your guessing around while searchign proved nothing. DOT fluid can and will eat up brithish rubber seals. we are not guessing, we are stating. the seals will last about a year before the rubberbecomes too gummy to work.

 

[Jaffer]

well your guessing around while searchign proved nothing. DOT fluid can and will eat up brithish rubber seals. we are not guessing, we are stating. the seals will last about a year before the rubberbecomes too gummy to work.

Department Of Transportation (DOT) is just a United States regulatory agency that approves and categorizes vehicle components like tires, containers carried on, fluids used by, etc.
"DOT" is not a fluid "type" made only in America of American hydraulic brake and clutch cylinders.
In fact, if you had a Lucas (made in England) clutch master cylinder instuction leaflet in your hand, you would be reading "Important: Use DOT4 or DOT5 fluid only".
It's not so much the "brithish" rubber that's of concern ... you just need to use the correct, recommended fluid which is most probably more compatable with British rubber compounds.
More importantly is the fact that switching from DOT5 to DOT3 or from DOT3 to DOT5 within the same system is what causes the seals to mush and fail.
You are making it sound like putting DOT classified fluids put into British made cylinders is the great culprit.

 

[blacklabjeep]

uh, actually on the instructions for lucas brake parts it states "Use Lucas (or Girling) approved brake fluid". The DOT 3 or 4 or 5 doesn't have shit to do w/ what the fluid is made up of, just what the rating is. And if you still don't think the the brand of fluid (Brit or American) matters, call a shop that deals w/ brit cars and ask them what brand of fluid they recommend. Enough of this B.S., lets get back to talking jeeps.

 

[slopoke]

yea, you put somethjing that says DOT on it and it will eat your selas. no shit DOT aint a fluid. but its a majority type on shelves that will eat the rubber. actually it jsut softens it. so go do something else, besides trolling around

 

[Oxjockey]

The DOT 3 or 4 or 5 doesn't have shit to do w/ what the fluid is made up of, just what the rating is.

Right, it's all formulated exactly the same, but performs and acts differently.

You guys are a bunch of asses. (Save Jaffer and tys)

Read here about how DOT4 is approved in Girling hardware.

Go to the Newbie Forum, please.

Bryan

 

[Jaffer]

Thanks for stepping in, Brian ...
These clods have thick heads and it was killing me to think someone might swallow their BS, wreck their systems, and most importantly ... put lives at risk.

Tys, I love my vacuum bleeder kit.
It's the sure fire way to single handedly bleed brake and hydro clutch systems.

And I use DOT5 in my clutch line, and DOT3 in my brake system ... thank you very much ... on the advice of a power brake system specialists, Van of VANCO Power Brake Service, in California.
I just have to make sure some idiot doesn't try adding something other that DOT5 to my clutch MC when I'm not looking.

The reason I'm making such a fuss about all this is what might happen if someone like Boggerdust swallows some of the crap being shoveled on this thread ...

Quote

Boggerdust: "I checked the factory manual and it said DOT brake fluid. Is this question involving a Jeep."

Boggerdust: "No kidding? I have that Girling and put regular brake fluid in it. How long does it take to destroy the seals? I guess, I'll buy some of that import fluid and flush it out."

End Quote

BlacklabJeep and slopoke, you two almost had Bogger going out and possably ruining his system if the only non-DOT approved "import" fluid he might find on the shelves happened to be a full synthetic after he's already said he's already using "regular" (DOT3 I presume) fluid.
Two stools in the corners and dunce caps please ....
And a third if you had but didn't read the Girling instructions for your installation, Booger.

 

[blacklabjeep]

Well since i'm a dunce cap wearing newbie and an ass, I'll try to better explain myself. The orignal question was if he should use Castrol fluid in his system, to that i replied yes. Why? b/c other brands can eat up girling seals. Sorry if you guys thought I was trying to destroy his system. I was just going on my previous expericnces w/ girling units and the wrong brand of fluid. And yes he should use the correct DOT rating. I don't recall telling him to use non-DOT fluid. Well, I don't feel like getting into a pissing match, so I'll go back to the newbie forums since apperently thats the only place dunces are allowed...

 

[tys]

Boy, this really turned into a shit storm! Jaffer, like my usual self, I ask questions before I buy or dive into something. After posting the question, talking to Oxjockey offline, and a few others, I went ahead and purchased the Girling setup...but it hasn't arrived yet so I don't have a clue what the instructions say. 95% of the time I read the instructions, but thought I may get a straight answer here on #1 how to properly bleed the system and #2 about the correct fluid type.

Sorry for the mess...just searching for knowledge here.

When the Girling hardware shows up, I will post the instructions on fluid type just for ha-ha's...

Later,
Chris

 

[Jaffer]

Chris-

I picked up on this thread because I'd asked basically the same question ... only way back in 1998 on the old Parts Mike forum...
This was back when there was no POR and the ORC board was just starting up... (Say, "yeah, grandpa" now if you want to) ...
In fact, I still have the bitmap clip of the first reply I recieved after inquiring ... trying to learn as you are, on how do do this swap and the bleeding technique involved...
And since I'm just hanging here at home, post surgery, full of Perks and nothing else better (I should attempt) to do you may want to hear the rest ...
... especially since I have been accused here of pulling quickly searched answers out of my butt to reply on this thread. :flipoff2:

---- cut ----
John
From: Michael R.Monahan [[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 1:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Clutch Petal Wanted

John the J53004164 hose is correct, I sell it for $15.75., the pedal you have will work, use a hole saw on the outlined area on the firewall and drill the 2 bolt holes, mount the M/cyl and line the rod up on your existing pedal, you will be pleasently surprised.
Mike

John wrote:
Thanks, Mike!

The place for the Master Cylinder is clearly outlined on my firewall.

Which hose will fit best on a 258 6 cyl. T-5 setup ...
The 6 cyl version hose or the longer 4 cyl version hose??
I plan on installing a 1” body lift and
headers if that makes a difference.

---- cut ---

 

[Jaffer]

The original reply ...